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  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  '64 1/2 to '68 1/2 -- The Classic Mustang
  VIN Research

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Author Topic:   VIN Research
Reed's '65 vert
Journeyman

Posts: 40
From: Houston, Tx , US
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-08-2005 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Reed's '65 vert        Reply w/Quote
I've got a 65 A code convertible with a missing data plate. I was curious if anyone knows of a service that can fill in the gaps ( orig colors, rear end, trans, etc ) based solely on the VIN.

Mooney
Gearhead

Posts: 2357
From: Marietta, Ga
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 08-08-2005 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mooney        Reply w/Quote
Don't believe thats going to be possible as to the fact that Ford has no records for up to 66 on these cars. If it was a 67+ I believe Marti Reports could help you out. All you can do is decode the vin, find out as much as possible. By the sequence number, someone might be able to give you an idea of when the car was actually built.

Bum deal, good luck on any findings though.

Luke

Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 08-08-2005 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson        Reply w/Quote
Luke is correct in the fact that all the Ford records for the 64 1/2 to '66 Mustang were lost/destroyed from a fire and flooding. So there is not a way to help you on the missing data plate. 1967 on up is available from Kevin Martti for a fee.

Your best bet for finding the original color is to start looking at all the little nooks and cranies for different color paint. Rear end and tranny you need to look for I.D. Tags on them or casting numbers. Since your Mustang is a '65, you will want your casting numbers to start with C4 or C5 maybe even a couple of C3s. Anything is possible. I have found C5 and C6 casting numbers on parts in my wife's '66 coupe.

Dave & Terri

------------------
'65 Mustang Fastback
'66 Mustang Coupe
'02 Explorer XLT
Common sense isn't common anymore.

gmliebau
Gearhead

Posts: 691
From: Port St. Lucie, FL
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 08-08-2005 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gmliebau        Reply w/Quote
Ah, finally my area of expertise. It's not very often that I can answer one of these posts.

For the original color, you can look a few different places. First try behind the headlight housing. A friend of mine was able to come up with a correct '66 Emberglo this way. Also, you can try little areas that usually don't get painted, or only get misted...behind interior panels or window trim would be a good place to start.

As far as the options on the car, you'll have to do some research. For example, I found out my car used to have a console because there were holes drilled down the transmission tunnel.

The DSO, rear axle, tranny stuff will be close to impossible to find out unless you find the tags or stampings Dave was talking about.

If you plan on pulling out the interior, you may find the build sheet. That would be a big plus! If it's still there, you'll find it under the dash, one of the seats (including the rear seat) or under the carpet. I wouldn't expect it to be there though. It usually get thrown out the first time someone comes across it.

Good luck to you.

[This message has been edited by gmliebau (edited 08-08-2005).]

Scott H
Gearhead

Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 08-08-2005 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott H        Reply w/Quote
You can usually tell if it was originally an automatic or a stick shift based on the pedals currently in the car. If they are missing, then you would look for evidence of a clutch rod hole going thru the firewall or maybe the qualizer bar pivot mounted on the frame under the steering gearbox.
You can find out if it had power steering by looking at the holes in the frame where the pwer assist cylinder bracket would mount. If the holes are threaded, it either had original power steering or maybe it was added later. No threads, that means it never had power assist.
If the car turns out to be automatic, the most common numbers on the data plate would have been 6 on the rear end and 6 on the trans.
If you have the full correct VIN you can tell the year, build factory, body style, and engine type. The six-digit unit number can get you close to a build date.
DSO, trim, color....you'll have to be a good detective to get those. Sometimes a DMV search of previous titles can get you the name of a previous owner that will clue you in.

Reed's '65 vert
Journeyman

Posts: 40
From: Houston, Tx , US
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-09-2005 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Reed's '65 vert        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the replies. Mainly, I was trying to find out two things: the rear end and whether or not it was a factory GT. I was able to locate the tag on the carrier bolt so that problem is solved.

Regarding the GT question, I'm still at a loss. The only thing that I've recently come across to make me question it's authenticity is the location of the vent on the rear axle. I recently read ( on this site ) that true GT's had the vent on the front of the axle where mine is on the top. Everything else seems to be authentic: A code engine, rally pac, location and appearance of fog light harness holes in radiator support, front disc brakes, rear trumpet exhaust and location of GT badges. In addition, it also has the factory P/S and A/C as well.

Is the location of the vent tube a tell tale sign that it was not a factory GT.

Mooney
Gearhead

Posts: 2357
From: Marietta, Ga
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 08-09-2005 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mooney        Reply w/Quote
Someone just posted this website on GT facts and fallacies. Maybe it'll help out some.
http://www.etconnect.com/gt/mmgtff.htm

Luke

Reed's '65 vert
Journeyman

Posts: 40
From: Houston, Tx , US
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 08-10-2005 12:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Reed's '65 vert        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the link. I'll take a look and see what I find.

Scott H
Gearhead

Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 08-10-2005 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott H        Reply w/Quote
Lift up your back seat (bottom). Look at the spot where the dual exhaust hangers would come through the floor. Should be near the center of each half of the seat, against the back, a little above the curve of the floor board. If you have two thicknesses of metal there it indicates the car came from the factory with a dual exhaust. (the regular floor pan is reinforced by another layer of metal floor on top, larger than a frizbee).
If it is only one layer of metal, no dual exhaust, no GT.

DocVoodoo
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Plainfield CT USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 08-10-2005 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DocVoodoo        Reply w/Quote
I never heard of the floor board thickness stuff thats a new one for me . I do know factory Gt's never came with power steering or brakes so they may be add on's after the fact if its a true GT


Equipment Group on April 17, 1965. The first documented GT was built on 2/20/65. GT stands for the European abbreviation of “Gran Turismo” or “Grand Touring.” The 1965 Mustang GT equipment is a combination of Performance/Appearance package, and could only be ordered on 8-cylinder Mustangs.
Required A or K code engine with dual exhaust
5-gauge instrumentation
Dual Exhaust with trumpeted tailpipes exiting through rear valance
Front disk brakes (non-powered) and DISK BRAKE identified on pedal pad
Heavy duty suspension -22/1 steering ratio, 13/16" sway bar, H/D springs and shocks
Fog lights mounted as part of the grill ornament
GT ornamentation badge on front fenders
MUSTANG chrome letters inside of a triple stripe on front fenders
Stripes from front wheel well to rear wheel well
Quarter panel ornaments deleted (coupe and convertible; fastbacks were not offered with quarter panel ornaments)
Mustang emblem and running horse are deleted from front fenders
Rear bumper guards were deleted from the vehicle due to trumpeted exhaust
Rocker panel moldings were not available with the GT package.
Tip #1: Due to the dual exhaust, the rear frame rails have an additional bracket between the inside rails where the rear exhaust hanger bolts go through the frame. The bracket can be felt (not seen) by inserting your finger into the alignment hole (for the trunk floors) in the rear of the frame rail and bending it toward the rear of the vehicle. Also, the rear brake hose is located on the upper portion of the floor pan, about halfway between the frame rail and the driveshaft tunnel, instead of being located near the upper portion of the driveshaft tunnel. Not all cars equipped with dual exhaust were GT’s; however, all GT’s had dual exhaust pipes which exited through the rear valance with the chrome exhaust tips, and the rear valance did not have holes for the rear bumper guards.

Tip #2: The Interior Decor Group (Pony) was introduced at the same time as the GT Equipment Group and could be ordered as an option. This included luxury trim, woodgrain appliqué, ornamentation and deluxe steering wheel, 5-gauge instrument cluster, courtesy door lights, padded visors and chrome trim around the pedals. Not all GT equipped Mustangs had Pony interiors, nor were all Interior Decor Group vehicles GT’s.

Tip #3: Not all cars with the A or K code engines were GT’s. In fact, only about 4% were original factory GT’s.

Tip #4: The quicker ratio steering box that was used on GT’s will have a code of either “HCC AX” or “HCC AW”. The tag is easily visible bolted to the top of the steering gear box. These codes do not guarantee that the car is a factory GT because you could order the quicker ratio apart from the GT in the special handling package. However, a code of HCC AT for the slower gear ratio of 27:1 means that unless the box has been incorrectly changed out, the car could not have been an authentic factory GT.

Tip #5: All 1965 and 1966 GT’s were factory equipped with front disc brakes. The disc brake master cylinder will have a master cylinder cap that clips on, while drum brake master cylinders have a screw-on cap. Disc brake master cylinders are approximately twice the diameter of a drum brake master cylinder.

Tip #6: Only 1965 GT’s came factory equipped with a bright hood lip molding. All 1966 Mustangs were equipped with this molding.

Tip #7: All GT’s were equipped with fog lights. The factory switch to turn them on was located on the underside of the dash, just inside the driver’s side door. When the switch is flipped on, both the fog lights and the rear tail lights light up. Non-factory GT’s with the fog lights added typically are not wired for the tail lights to illuminate when the fog lights are turned on.

Tip #8: The earliest documented GT was built on 2/20/65. If a Mustang was built much before that date, it is unlikely to be a factory GT. Go to the Mustang’s door data tag and look at the build date. If you are unfamiliar with build date codes, check out the date code article on our website. If the door data tag is missing, write down the VIN number that is found on the left front fender apron. Jim Smart & Jim Haskell’s book, In Search of Mustangs provides build date data that will allow you to determine within a few days as to when the Mustang was produced. Certainly close enough to determine if the Mustang could have been a factory GT.

Tip #9: The glove box door on both 1965 and 1966 GT’s is flat and carries the mustache at this upper edges.

Tip #10: 1965 GT’s came with a standard gas cap while all 1966 GT’s came with a gas cap with the letters “GT” on them.

Tip #11: GT’s were not available with bright rocker panel moldings.

Tip #12: GT’s were not available with quarter panel ornaments, which on non-GT’s were located in the sculptured area behind the front doors and on the quarter panel.

Tip #13: On 1965 GT’s the back side of each fog light is secured by a nut. In 1966, lights were secured by a stud screwed into a housing, which is also how the reproduction lights are built today.


GT EQUIPMENT GROUP
Special Handling Package
a. Increased rate front and rear springs
b. Larger front and rear shock absorbers
c. Quicker steering ratio of 22:1
d. Larger diameter front stabilizer bar


Front disc brakes


Fog lamps and grill bar


The quicker ratio steering box that was used on GT's will have a code of either HCC-AX or HCC-AW. (HCC-AW is a power steering box.)


Five gauge instrument cluster in 1965; standard on all Mustangs in 1966


Dual exhaust with chrome trumpets through the rear valance


A must option of either the A-code (225 HP Challenger 289 4V) or the K-code (271 HP High Performance 289 4V) engine


Standard gas cap in 1965 and GT gas cap in 1966
Ford dealers sold the fog lights, GT badges, deluxe steering wheels, letters and stripe kits as separate dealer installed options and these could be added to any Mustang.

The best way for a hobbyist to identify a “true” factory GT is to find the original Broadcast Sheet or Buck Tag and look for a P10 option (1965/66).

We at K.A.R. hope you find this information helpful when attempting to identify true 1965 and 1966 factory GT Mustangs. Remember, there is nothing wrong or dishonest about adding GT accessories to a Mustang if the owner likes the appearance. These accessories were readily available from Ford Motor Company in the 1960’s. In fact, Ford ran print ads showing the GT accessories, which stated “GT-ize your Mustang.” What is wrong and dishonest is to represent a 1965 or 1966 Mustang as a factory GT when it is not. There is a large value difference in the marketplace between a factory GT and a “want to be GT.” At K.A.R. we regularly sell factory GT Mustangs for $5,000 to $7,500 over the non-factory GT’s. Obviously, you do not want to pay this premium for a true factory GT and not receive what you paid for.

------------------
1966 GT light blue VERT
1966 GT light blue Convertible
Blue Standard Interior A code
I am running a 289 with a comp Cam 270HR roller , C9OX COBRA Intake , Holley 650 DP Mechanical Secondarys , Tri Y headers , roller tiped rocker Arms and over sized 351 Valves that are in 289 heads that have been polished and ported. Hooked to a T-10 4 speed and 3.25 traction lock 8 inch rear end.

DocVoodoo
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Plainfield CT USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 08-10-2005 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DocVoodoo        Reply w/Quote
wow I just went and looked and the extra floor layer is there. Its right were the the seat belt hole comes through next to the exaust hanger. You can see the extra layer from the inside. I never noticed that before and I also do not have a non GT here to compare it to so I will take your word that it's only a GT thing. When I go to my Dads I will have to take a look at one of his Non GT Verts . Thats cool I thought I knew everything about spoting one I learn something new today.

------------------
1966 GT light blue VERT
1966 GT light blue Convertible
Blue Standard Interior A code
I am running a 289 with a comp Cam 270HR roller , C9OX COBRA Intake , Holley 650 DP Mechanical Secondarys , Tri Y headers , roller tiped rocker Arms and over sized 351 Valves that are in 289 heads that have been polished and ported. Hooked to a T-10 4 speed and 3.25 traction lock 8 inch rear end.

Dave Gibson
Moderator

Posts: 10769
From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA M&M#166 MCA#47921
Registered: Aug 99

posted 08-10-2005 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Gibson        Reply w/Quote
Doc,
Don't worry about looking at a non-GT. Just finished the interior restoration of my wife's '66 coupe. The double layer of metal is not there. But I have also learned a lot of info from this thread. Have to get my father to check his '66 GT and see if a few of these things are really there or not.

Dave & Terri

------------------
'65 Mustang Fastback
'66 Mustang Coupe
'02 Explorer XLT
Common sense isn't common anymore.

[This message has been edited by Dave Gibson (edited 08-10-2005).]

Scott H
Gearhead

Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 08-10-2005 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott H        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DocVoodoo:
I will take your word that it's only a GT thing.

I learned this from MoneyMaker (Alex)

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