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Author
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Topic: new toy won't start
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 12-09-2005 02:48 PM
 
Literally, one hour ago, I came home from work to meet the car hauler to take possesion of my new toy. A 65 coupe that's had a 289 and a T5 installed. I drove it around the block and approacing my house again the engine died, I had enough momentum to roll up in my driveway but now the engine won't turn over. I do get a 'thunking' sound when I turn the key but that's it. I put a battery charger on it but that didn't help and it appears to be charged up. Any idea's on what I should check first / next? Can I jump it at the solenoid on the fener well? And if so what posts do you connect? Forty-Four years old and this is my first Ford ever. I'm still excited about it even with this rough beginning. Thanks!!
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-09-2005 03:03 PM
First get a 15/16 socket, extension, and ratchet.
Slip it on the front of the engine at the balancer and make sure it will spin over by hand.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 8777
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-09-2005 03:08 PM
then check all your battery cables.------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60ft 50 % of the fun dragracing is meeting people who will give you the shirt off their back to wipe the grease off your hands.
M&M member #839 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mike470/adel2.jpg
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 12-09-2005 03:33 PM
I can turn it over by hand. Spun it at least 180 degrees. BTW, do these things spin CW or CCW? I'll go check the battery cables.
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 661
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 12-09-2005 03:35 PM
Welcome to M&M Brian !The sound you hear when you turn the key is mostlikely the starter attempting to turn over the engine. It fails doing so either because the starter is gone or the engine has become too hard to turn over (hence the test that Alex mentioned) Jump start the car from the engine compartment by connecting the batterie +12V to the first contact on the solenoid (closest to the batterie or to the front of the car).
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 12-09-2005 04:48 PM
OK, changed out the positive battery cable because it looked a little suspect. Couldn't really find any loose connections yet. When I turn the key or jump it at the solenoid directly the solenoid is making a clicking sound but I can not really hear any thing from the starter itself.
So probably the starter uh? The car has Thorley Tri-Y headers and what appears to be the large size stock type starter. We'll have to see what kind of a challenge it is to get it off.
In the meantime, are suggestions for a decent start to put on it? It's a hot rod but doesn't have that much compression but I'd rather get a decent one now if I'm going to be buying one.
Thanks! Bryan
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capri man
Gearhead Posts: 8777
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 12-09-2005 04:52 PM
i have been running a stock late model small starter for about 5 years now with no problems. picked it up at the junkyard for $25!!! good luck------------------
mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-302-7.25 @93mph 1/8
1.54 60ft 50 % of the fun dragracing is meeting people who will give you the shirt off their back to wipe the grease off your hands.
M&M member #839 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/mike470/adel2.jpg
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Green68
Journeyman Posts: 48
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 12-09-2005 05:34 PM
Here's my $.02:
Inspect the battery cables, if they have had the ends cut off and the aftermarket cable clamps installed throw them away. Go to your favorite parts store and buy new cables, the fatter the guage the better. Remove and clean all the battery connections; at the battery, at the solenoid, where the positive cable connects to the starter and where the negative cable connects to the block. Clean both surfaces well, you want shiny metal to shiny metal connections. This is cheap preventive maintenance and may possibly save you from buying a starter. Good Luck and welcome. ------------------
'68 302 2v C4
All stock ragtop [This message has been edited by Green68 (edited 12-09-2005).]
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Dreamcometrue
Gearhead Posts: 903
From: New-Brunswick,Canada
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 12-09-2005 08:15 PM
Welcome to M&M, Bryan.
Headers produce a lot of heat that can damage a starter.If you have to change the starter,try to fit a small sheet of metal between the starter and the header.
Will keep the starter from getting too hot.
Rino  ------------------
'69 coupe 302 with a C-4 3:00-1 gears
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 600cfm carb, K&N air filter
Dual exhaust with Ravin z-55 mufflers Pertronix II
Member#3729 http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/Dreamcometrue.html
June 2005 Ford Product of the Month
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Bakers67Coupe
Gearhead Posts: 115
From: Chandler,AZ,USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 12-10-2005 04:56 PM
Bryan, to answer your earlier question, the motor turns clockwise when running. (When you are looking from the radiator back to the motor.) Welcom To M&M.------------------
bakenaz.com
Was 'A'Code 289 4v (Now a nice 351w)
Fact Air, Front Discs
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 12-11-2005 07:57 PM
Finally got to work on the car again. Went ahead and also changed the negative battery cable that bolts to the block and had the battery recharged and tested but got the same result as before.
So I dropped the starter, I was pleasantly surprised on how easy it came out. Based on just looking at them I think I would recommend the Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers that are on the car. And the nickle plating appears to have held up really well also.So here is what is probably a stupid question but I've learned not to let that stop me from asking. To test the starter, I took a battery charger with the switch set to 'start car'. I attached the negative clip to the ear of the starter where it bolts to the block and then touched the postive clip to the starter where the cable had been attached from the solenoid. I got absolutely no response, no movement or sound whatsoever. So I am thinking dead starter for sure. What do you think? This is a great site and a great forum.
Thanks, Bryan [This message has been edited by BryanM (edited 12-11-2005).]
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66fstbck
Gearhead Posts: 384
From: Worthington, Pa. USA 16262
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 12-11-2005 09:19 PM
Welcome to M&M Bryan, glad to have you. Yep, it sure sounds like a bad starter to me. I've checked them before using a set of jumper cables and attach the negative from the battery to the case and the positive to the terminal that comes from the solonoid. Keep in mind that a starter has lots of torque so you should have it secured when doing this.
------------------
Alan
66 Fastback
99 GT Convertible
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-11-2005 11:16 PM
An average battery charger will not have enough amps to motorize a FoMoCo starter.
You need to perform the same test with a set of jumper cables and a hot battery.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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64coupe
Gearhead Posts: 173
From: Bristol, PA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 12-12-2005 05:00 PM
thats true moneymaker, but he said he had it on "car start" which would have enough amps to make that starter pop up and spin......
if the solenoid is clicking check the metal band that is at the opposite end of the starter gear where the stud is that the cable connects to. i've had two starters where that band comes loose and welds itself to the stud coming out of the starter.  if not sounds like your starter is still beat...i think they're less than 40 bucks at your local parts store. good luck
Steve
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 12-12-2005 09:02 PM
OK, did the check with jumper cables off of the battery. Definately was stronger than the battery charger, got some sparking when I touched the positive to the starter but still no action from the starter. Thanks for the help.------------------
1965 coupe / 289 / T5.
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 12-19-2005 08:58 AM
Just a follow up. Got my new Powermasters starer from Summit and that fixed the car, it started right up again. I am impressed with their starters, it is a really nice piece. It went on no problem, the clockable face was even already in the right position, and is pretty quiet. So I'm getting to play with the new toy now, the four year old keeps asking me to take him for rides around the block in the 'hot rod'. "Well, OK, son, since you asked..." : ) ------------------
Bryan - 1965 coupe / 289 / T5.
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