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Author
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Topic: Which pointless ignition system is the best(most added hp)
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66drop
Gearhead Posts: 192
From: Roseville Ca
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-04-2006 02:12 PM
 
My latest winter project is my autolite 4100 rebuild and a point less ignition set. Is pertronix the peppiest & most worry free set out there?
I know all of you pros out there have pointless ignitions(smile).------------------
'66 Vert, 289, 3speed, w/procars.
A removable 14in grant steering wheel.
Granada disk break swap.
15x7&15x8 steel styles w/225-60-15's.
Front & rear sways.
5-leaf rear leaf sprrings and magnaflows.
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-04-2006 02:16 PM
You're gonna get a bunch of opinions on this one!Many guys like the duraspark conversion. Uses a larger cap and you have to add the spark box to it. Inexpensive, reliable. Many guys prefer the Pertronix fo Pertronix II conversions. Uses stock cap & rotor so its easy to keep the vintage look for the engine, also uses your stock coil so you don't have an extra spark box. Simple two wire hookup. There's a few others also, see what other guys post.
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iamonewithjustin
Gearhead Posts: 185
From:
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 01-04-2006 03:54 PM
Go with MSD. I went throught two petronix modules in 2 years. The MSD ready to run dizzy is a good start. You can use just the distributor and if you want to add the box later you can.
I cant testify to the duraspark system other that the fact that I havn't heard anything bad about them.
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 317
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-04-2006 04:02 PM
IMO it all depends on what you are willing to spend. Some people have luck with the Petronix units and some people have alot of problems with them going out. They aren't so readily available if you are away from home and stumble into a local parts store. I personally run a duraspark distributor and box and have had no problems. If the box goes out then i go to the parts store and it is $10 or so. This setup works fine for a standard cruiser, but you may get better performance with the bigger name brand igntions like MSD, Crane, Accel, and Mallory. I'd be interested to see a comparison with the different ignitions boxes on the same motor and each having a dyno sheet. I mean, will a $400 MSD box give you that many more horsepower than a $100 Accel box? I had been looking into the Crane Fireball Hi-6 boxes but haven't made that jump. You can use the duraspark distributors with any aftermarket box by the way. The connectors are the only difference and you can make a jumper harness between the dizzy and the box.------------------
1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 8198
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-04-2006 04:02 PM
You can run a Duraspark dist with the smaller cap. Only drawback, it may break down and arc across inside dist, to another cylinder when accelerating hard. Did it on a 66 with the ol' reliable 5.0 and an 85 dist. with the steel gear. Back then, Ford Motorsport sold a harness for that deal. They're available in junkyards
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mustangboy
Gearhead Posts: 1343
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-04-2006 08:30 PM
There actually isn't much horsepower to be gained with any of them if your current setup is working properly..I saw a dyno test in one of the magazines a few years back and they tested everything from points to the latest hi tech stuff.There was only a couple of horsepower difference between them all,including the points distributor.Of course this might be different if your revving really high(over 6000 rpm)but the main advantages you will get are better driveability,mileage and starting.Never having to replace the points again is nice too...I've installed two pertronix units so far and they are both still going strong.I like the original "look" and the fact that if it fails I can just throw in a set of points out of the glovebox and be on my way in 10 minutes.------------------
68 J-Code,Sprint,306 4 speed,4.11s 13.69@101...............
66 coupe 289 4 speed, 3.20 cruiser http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy.html http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/mustangboy2.html
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66drop
Gearhead Posts: 192
From: Roseville Ca
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-04-2006 08:32 PM
I talked to a guy at my local mustang parts store here in sac and he recomended the pertronix over the duraspark for reliabilty, but it sounds like some of you have had good experiences with them. Think i'll look into MSD also i here they are pretty good too.
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mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 8198
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-04-2006 08:45 PM
Got a box today with parts ordering stuff, including Pertronix and their coil. I neglected to order the Pertronix itself but got the nice shiny black, heavy ingitor coil......hecho en CHINA! May go with Duraspark as I have an 85 Dist.
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66drop
Gearhead Posts: 192
From: Roseville Ca
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-04-2006 09:37 PM
Good luck Mellow let me know if that combo works for you.
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I65Stang
Gearhead Posts: 6792
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-04-2006 10:03 PM
If you do go with the Petronix always keep a set of points and some tools in the trunk. I had two go on me and when the third starting screwing up I put the points back in and left them for good. They always seem to go at the most inopportune time too. For an occasional, non performance driver I would stick with points. I've talked to one too many people that have had problems with the Petronix to recommend them but the Durasparks do seem to last forever and are easily found in parts stores and are affordable.Ps, notice they dont sell durasparks at the Mustang parts store but do sell petronix's. ------------------
Tim M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1991 Ford Festiva, 30+ mpg, enough said
http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html [This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 01-04-2006).]
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sigtauenus
Gearhead Posts: 3969
From: Va Beach
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 01-04-2006 10:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by I65Stang:
I had two go on me and when the third starting screwing up I put the points back in and left them for good.
Tim, you got lucky then if it gave you notice. Mine went out no notice at all, I was stuck sitting at a truck stop trying to figure out why she wouldn't start at all. Fortunately I had my points and the trusty tool kit with me. I really liked the pertronix when it worked, but the reliability factor just wasn't there. I don't trust it. I can say that it was out of warranty when I sent it back to them, they tested it, said it failed, and mailed me a free replacement. I kept using the replacement until I parked the car but always kept the points with me just in case. Wish I could remember what prompted me to keep the points in the car before it happened the first time, that was just dumb luck. I'm going with Duraspark next time. I'll grab a dist and box from the parts yard. Even if I end up using the dist for a core, the core charge at Autozone is at least 50 bucks, so still worth it to pick up a used one whether you actually use that one or not.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 01-04-2006 10:26 PM
Save up and buy a MSD or Accel electronic distributor.
They both offer econo models.
The Pertronix has an inordinate failure rate.
I won't install any more of them. Tired of towing back customers.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 01-04-2006 10:45 PM
Guess I've been lucky then, mine's been in the car for over 2 years, problem free. When I do get the new distributor, it will be an Accel, like the Boss said.------------------
William "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
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rdinmv
Gearhead Posts: 163
From: orange county CA
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 01-05-2006 02:13 AM
The durasspark is good to 10,000 rpm, its cheap and you can find parts at any auto parts anywhere. You will not feel any hp difference whatsoever by a distibutor change alone, the only thing that will add hp iss the advance curve of the distributor.Get a rebuilt duraspark from your local auto parts and have it recurved for performance. Use a 76-85 unit. get a good ignition box (make sure it is a controller type) and wire it in to the distrib. I used to be sold on jacobs ignitions, and they are excellent, but since msd's mutispark patent ran out all manufactures are making multispark units even jacobs is making a msd style analog MS unit. I think the best ignition for the money now is the accell 300+ it makes one of the hottest sparks,lowest current draw,multispark,smallest control box and built in rev limiter. I sold an astrovan which I had it on and adapted it to my 67 mustang and removed the ford module altogether. The jacobs advantage, at least my old one was I was able to have 2 ignitions, the jacobs and the duraspark module I was able to flip a switch and change ignitions just in case one fails. You could definetly feel a difference,I think you can use stock junkyard harness plugs so if your aftermarket ignition fails you can keep a durasprk module in the trunk and plug it in to get home. If you are on a budget, the old msd 6a can be had for around 170.00 (less coil) and they are reliable and add a kick you can feel. You will wantt tto regap plugs to 55-65 depending on the ignition you use to get max benefit. If you are on a real tight budget, get a junkyard duraspark or rebuilt and use a "blue" module or a chrysler module. Those are the two best stock ignition modules out there. Basically you can use just about any factory non computer controlled module with any elec dist. The best book on ignitions is by jacobs, the dr's guide to ignitions this book will make you understand everything you ever wanted to know about ignitions, there wiring diagrams for just about every ignition out there,specs,interchange,advance curves annd tricks and tips every motorhead should know. The duraspark is still one of tthe best distributors made. Aftermarket dist's are good but if it breaks, you cant go to your local pep boys or kragen/shucks and get running the same day. That is a factor to consider when buying any critical aaftermarket parts.......been there done that and I learned the hard way. my 67 vert http://htwheelz.smugmug.com
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-05-2006 09:18 AM
Well in the short time I've been driving my Mustang I've had 4 different ignition systems. Of course points was the first, I then switched to a Petronix, which for the short time I used it did real well.When I replaced the 289 with the stroker, I used a MSD Pro Billet ready to run. This unit lasted less than 500 miles before leaving me stranded on the side of the road. Bottom line, the internal module was heat sensitive, once it got hot it would shut off. Since it needed to be returned to MSD for repair I installed a Duraspark. Worked flawlessly, in fact after the MSD was returned repaired I never even put it back in the car. I am now in the process of installing fuel injection, and will be using a Mallory TFI dizzy. This was the recommended unit by the manufacturer of my kit. http://www.mass-floefi.com/index.html Go with the Duraspark, parts are so easy to find and it is reliable. I mounted the box on the support for the battery tray, and made a plug in wire harness that almost made it invisible. Let me know if you would like photos of how I did this.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-05-2006 09:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by rdinmv:
The best book on ignitions is by jacobs, the dr's guide to ignitions this book will make you understand everything you ever wanted to know about ignitions, there wiring diagrams for just about every ignition out there,specs,interchange,advance curves annd tricks and tips every motorhead should know.
Is that the title..."The dr's guide to ignitions"?
Where did you buy it?
Do you recall the price? Thanks!
Ryan  [This message has been edited by Ryan Wilke (edited 01-05-2006).]
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427Fastback
Gearhead Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-05-2006 10:53 AM
I have found Pertronix to be far to unreliable...
I tend to use Duraspark dist because they are easy to get and dial in.I also like to use vacumn advance on "street cars".After market distributers are superior in construction,better materials,better shaft support and the use of bearings in some.Shaft stability is far superior..
The Jacobs book is a good read..
I have had good luck with both Duraspark and MSD but I build street cars not race cars.The demands and load on an ignition system are far greater over 6,000 rpm..Pick your poison..
Cory ------------------
68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.
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66drop
Gearhead Posts: 192
From: Roseville Ca
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-09-2006 05:01 PM
You guys have been great as usual. And you betcha 66 fastback, i would love to see what you did to your 'stang!------------------
'66 Vert, 289, 3speed, w/procars.
A removable 14in grant steering wheel.
Granada disk break swap.
15x7&15x8 steel styles w/225-60-15's.
Front & rear sways.
5-leaf rear leaf sprrings and magnaflows.
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-10-2006 09:41 AM
Take a look at page four here, http://www.cardomain.com/ride/597572 It will give you a couple of photos under the hood of my car. I can send you an email with attached photos of the harness I made and how I mounted the box to the battery support. Let me know where to send.
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BryanM
Journeyman Posts: 78
From: Friendswood, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 01-10-2006 11:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
Take a look at page four here, http://www.cardomain.com/ride/597572 It will give you a couple of photos under the hood of my car. I can send you an email with attached photos of the harness I made and how I mounted the box to the battery support. Let me know where to send.
Nice car! Looking at engine pics. I want to upgrade my fuel lines similar to what you have. What fuel pump and filter are you using? And I assume you are happy with it. etc.? Thanks. ------------------
Bryan - 1965 coupe / 289 / T5.
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 317
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 01-10-2006 01:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
Take a look at page four here, http://www.cardomain.com/ride/597572 It will give you a couple of photos under the hood of my car. I can send you an email with attached photos of the harness I made and how I mounted the box to the battery support. Let me know where to send.
Mind i ask where you got the Quiet Car deadener? A yahoo search didn't bring anything up like that. THanks!
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead Posts: 1889
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-10-2006 01:40 PM
I ran a "dinasaur" Accel dual point distributor with a big yellow Accel SuperCoil on my 428 Fairmont for several years, with no problems. After months of hearing my buddys telling me to "get with the times", I switched over to a Duraspark dist with a MSD 6T box. The car does start quicker when cold, idles better, and the plugs always look great.Performance wise, however, was exactly the same. Inmy 85 Mustang, I also run a DuraSpark dist with a MSD 6AL box. Several years ago, I converted my 74 F350`s 390 from points to a DuraSpark dist and OE "blue strain" Motorcraft module. I have also owned several other stock daily drivers with OE Durasparks, all have been great. In 20 years of owning cars with DuraSparks, I`ve never had a distributor fail, and only one original module ever went bad.Pretty much bulletproof, I think.------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed 10.20@131.5mph 1.32 60 foot
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed 12.8@105mph
85 Mustang NHRA M/Stock 302 5speed. 12.36@106.88mph 1.63 60 foot
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-10-2006 02:50 PM
How do you Id the "blue strain" Motorcraft module?
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-10-2006 03:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BryanM:
Nice car! Looking at engine pics. I want to upgrade my fuel lines similar to what you have. What fuel pump and filter are you using? And I assume you are happy with it. etc.? Thanks.
Well, yes I was until I decided to switch to fuel injection. Look at page seven of my link. Progress is slow but moving along none the less. I used a Holley unit from Summit HLY-12-289-11, I used a Summit branded fuel filter, a few couplers and elbows, and then a piece of 6AN line to the Speed Demon carb. None of course will be used on the fuel injection setup underway at this time.
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-10-2006 03:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by buening:
Mind i ask where you got the Quiet Car deadener? A yahoo search didn't bring anything up like that. THanks!
Look here, http://www.quietcoat.com/index.html
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-10-2006 03:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 68 S-code GT:
How do you Id the "blue strain" Motorcraft module?
There are several models of the Duraspark modules, there is a plastic strain relief where the wires exit the potting material. These are different colors for each spcific type of module, blue is the most common. It does not refer to the level of performance that it will provide to an engine, just the manner and type of functions it will do. Some had a spark retard function, etc......
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427Fastback
Gearhead Posts: 530
From: N.Vancouver.B.C
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 01-10-2006 03:35 PM
Blue strain refers to the color of plastic on the box where the wires exit it.There is also yellow and brown..Blue is the one to use..I have probably converted 20 cars and trucks to Duraspark.As Rory said...better starting and better running and your timing stays consistant..Performance gains are minimul.Only had one failure and it was the pole pc in the distributer.Both my FE powered pick-ups had spare boxes in them just in case..All electronics fail at some point..I also only use Ford boxes,I will not trust a jobber box.
This system can be easily backed up or hopped up with another box (MSD/Jacobs/crane) ------------------
68 Fastback 427MR 4 spd.Deluxe interior,8000 tach,140 speedo,am/fm,tilt.
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 01-10-2006 04:04 PM
both NPD and MustangsPlus pointed me to the Pertronix system. I have not had any problems with it. Learned how to do timing and read directions but other than that I have been good. I will keep you posted.Richard.
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PONYMAN
Gearhead Posts: 421
From: Ardmore, Ok. USA
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 01-10-2006 05:31 PM
I have had the pertronix in my mustang for about eight years, and in my wife's MGB for seven. Absolutely no problem with either car, no dead units, and no replacements. It is really hard for me to believe that so many people have had them go bad. I would definetly buy another for a future classic.
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-10-2006 10:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
Well I am now in the process of installing fuel injection, and will be using a Mallory TFI dizzy. This was the recommended unit by the manufacturer of my kit. http://www.mass-floefi.com/index.html
Jeff, You don't happen to work in Bridgewater do you?
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-11-2006 07:23 AM
Yes, I do, I guess we know each other somehow?
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-11-2006 08:15 AM
I was talking to a guy at the Jiffy Lube about a month ago about the Mass Flow injection. I was wearing a red shirt with some mustangs on it and I guess that started the conversation. I was driving a County owned silver Durango. Was that you?
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-11-2006 09:32 AM
Yep, that's me. Small world isn't it?
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-11-2006 10:40 AM
Here is something I had saved months ago, these looked pretty nice. http://www.performancedistributors.com/forddui.htm
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Toronado3800
Gearhead Posts: 1163
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-11-2006 04:15 PM
I had good luck with a Performance Distributors DUI set up on an old stroker chevy motor. Was able to open the plugs up to .055 and they stayed clean. I gotta believe a system which keeps your plugs clean is worth 20 HP. Maybe not the first day you put it in, but definately a after a month when the "old" system would have been all fouled up.
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66drop
Gearhead Posts: 192
From: Roseville Ca
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-11-2006 04:56 PM
Your posts have been Very helpful, i appreciate this site soo much(smile). I can only talk to the wife for so long about the things i want to do to the 'stang before she begins to tune me out(frown).66fastback i want to see the rest of those pictures of your engine compartment my email is marlogaspard@yahoo.com, thanks bud. And i cannot even begin to tell you how HOT your "stang is! It is cars like yours that keep me inspired in this hobby. Does any one have advice or a link to some cool pics on how to install the Duraspark systems.
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66drop
Gearhead Posts: 192
From: Roseville Ca
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted 01-11-2006 05:02 PM
I65Stang how is it going? I posted something a while back and saw you reply and I meant to say hello way back then, being that we are practically neighbors(smile). When you hear of any Mustang shows or get togethers let me know and i'll do the same for you.
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68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-11-2006 10:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 66 fastback:
Small world isn't it?
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66 fastback
Gearhead Posts: 223
From: Califon, NJ 07830
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 01-12-2006 11:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 66drop:
Your posts have been Very helpful, i appreciate this site soo much(smile). I can only talk to the wife for so long about the things i want to do to the 'stang before she begins to tune me out(frown).66fastback i want to see the rest of those pictures of your engine compartment my email is marlogaspard@yahoo.com, thanks bud. And i cannot even begin to tell you how HOT your "stang is! It is cars like yours that keep me inspired in this hobby. Does any one have advice or a link to some cool pics on how to install the Duraspark systems.
Thanks for your kind words, I will locate my Duraspark setup and photograph it by the weekend. Watch for the emails...... Try here for some Duraspark wiring instructions, this is what I used. http://www.mustangsteve.com/conversion.html
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