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Author
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Topic: Steering Box
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SugarlandStang
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 04-23-2006 10:37 PM
 
I've kinda gotten used to the little bit of play in my 67's steering wheel. However, today I found a stretch of deserted road and decided to make a little 1/4 mile test run. However, when my speedo hit 110 my stang started bounce around a little bit, and with the play in the wheel. I knew I had to shut it down, before the 1/4 mark. By the way the new 3.8 gears mean I was only going about 80. Anyway, I was wondering if the manual steering gear box is the same as a power steering box. I assume this is where the play in my steering is coming from. My car came with power steering but "power" has been removed.
Any thoughts on the bounce? It kinda felt like I was riding on air. Need front spoiler? Don't really want one.
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 04-23-2006 11:14 PM
You may be experiencing a handful of issues all at once.
It would be normal, after 40 years, for your steering box to have a little play when driving straight. The only difference between the power and non-power boxes is the number of turns lock to lock.
You're probably also suffering some bump steer. Run a search for it here at M&M and you'll find loads of info.
The one that intrigues me is your description of feeling like you are floating on air. I've experienced that really badly in a big block 68 Charger. I couldn't figure out how driving a car with a huge chunk of iron could feel like it had nothing up front at all, even at fairly low speeds. I never fixed that problem before getting rid of it, but I would think a chin spoiler would be the answer.
My 68 Stang with a 302 also floats a little, but I'm too busy fighting with the bump steer to worry about that right now 
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SugarlandStang
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 04-24-2006 09:03 PM
Yes, bump steer is exactly what I've got, thanks. However, upon further inspection, I think the bigger tires in front are rubbing slightly when I hit big bumps or little ones at 80. I think this is making the bump steer much worse.  I'll try the stock tires on my next test run.  About the riding on air, the front end just never seemed fall. Come to think of it, the last time I had the front end off the ground for a couple of days and I set it back down. It took a couple of hours for the front end to come back down to "normal". The front end was about 4" higher than normal for a while. Do you think I've got a problem with my shocks? Of course I'd like to think the riding on air was the 350 HP! 
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 04-24-2006 09:10 PM
The front sitting higher after being lifted is normal.
The floating on air feeling at speeds. I think you need to adjust the front for racing. Do a search in the racing forum. You'll find the specs needed to help with the lite front end feeling.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 04-25-2006 11:43 AM
When my car was stock with a worn out suspension, I decided to see how fast it would go on a long, straight road.It took FOREVER to hit 100mph, and the front end was up in the air and wandering all over the place! The main reason for this was a butter soft springs front AND REAR. The rear leafs were soggy and allowed the rear to sag..... which put the car in a 'nose-up' attitude that caused the front end to catch a lot of air underneath it. Not good. After replacing the rear springs with some stiffer units that kept the car from sagging, it did far better at speed. Rebuilding the front end and installing stiffer springs also made a HUGE difference. You need to install some stiffer springs on the rear, possibly rebuild the front end and maybe install some newer, slightly stiffer springs.... ones with a variable rate are nice for the street. DEFINITELY put some stiffer springs on the rear. That's the best thing I ever did for my car when going through all that. You can also adjust the steering box to take out it's slack. Simply loosen the locknut, and turn the screw in until it is just snug. If there is resistance in the steering, it's been adjusted too tight. Just tighten it enough to take out the slack. Good Luck! ------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220 [This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 04-25-2006).]
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SugarlandStang
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 04-26-2006 07:51 PM
First I'm going to adjust that steering box. Thanks for that tip. Second, I'm going to see if can get rid of the bump steer with the smaller tires. Then make a test run, and as long as the pucker factor doesn't go beyond 5 or 6, I'll keep the shocks. They seem stiff enough. I'll probably order the chin spoiler after a little research. The spoiler is more for looks. The front spoiler says, "this car is so fast it needs a spoiler to keep it from flying"!
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 04-26-2006 08:13 PM
quote:
You can also adjust the steering box to take out it's slack. Simply loosen the locknut, and turn the screw in until it is just snug.
The advice I picked up here at M&M is that with the wheels straight, you snug it down THEN back it off half a turn. This takes account of the likelihood the gear inside the box is no longer round, but more likely oval, with the most wear in the middle section.
The drawback of this is it leaves a little slop in the system when going straight, but it makes it easier to steer when turning.
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BornInAFord
Gearhead Posts: 610
From: Bend, OR, USA
Registered: Dec 2002
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posted 04-27-2006 03:06 PM
While adjustment in this way may work for the short term, it might not be the best long-term as it masks problems in the box itself. It is quick and easy, though.Here is the proper way to do it from stangersite. This is also the way the shop manual will tell you to do it--setting preload without any drag on it. Simon's suggestion is the same as this but without determining preload.  As far as floating, did you happen to convert to granada disc brakes? There have been several people that have had issues with exacerbated bumpsteer when doing this conversion, although this is mostly for the 65-66 models.
Daniel
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 04-27-2006 08:18 PM
That's a very informative but depressing read, Daniel! I wonder if it's worth going through all that hassle to adjust an original steering box. The reason I say that is 'cos I figure after 40 years, there's bound to be some pretty serious wear on the parts, and rather than adjusting them, they should actually be replaced.
What I'd love is a tech article on how to rebuild these things and where to get the parts But I fear the parts may be closely guarded like all those brake booster parts.
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SugarlandStang
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 04-27-2006 09:22 PM
I've got drum brakes. I'll probably fix the steering properly when I finish the other projects. My guess is that adjusting the steering box will be like my door latch... The door latch was a little loose so I tightened it up. Then the door wouldn't unlock  , at least not with the key. I had to yank the door lock up and down a few times. I did pull the door panel off and look around and try to fix it, (spray WD40, move lock up and down,) It was easier to just have a door latch a little loose.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 04-28-2006 09:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
You can also adjust the steering box to take out it's slack. Simply loosen the locknut, and turn the screw in until it is just snug. If there is resistance in the steering, it's been adjusted too tight. Just tighten it enough to take out the slack.
N2OMike,
If I'm recalling correctly, the above steering box procedure should be done with the front wheels turned at a 45*, NOT straight ahead,,,,correct? Ryan
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RonnieT
Gearhead Posts: 912
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 04-28-2006 10:05 AM
You say "My car came with power steering but "power" has been removed"When removing the PS did you remove the control valve also? If not then it is most probably tge cause of your slack.
------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time!
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23
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Fastback68
Gearhead Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 04-28-2006 10:38 AM
quote:
If I'm recalling correctly, the above steering box procedure should be done with the front wheels turned at a 45*, NOT straight ahead,,,,correct?
My brain tells me that would be right - if snugging the adjustment down. Or if doing with the wheels straight, back the adjuster off half a turn. I think they would achieve approx the same effect.
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n2oMike
Gearhead Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 04-28-2006 10:42 AM
I don't make it too complicated. I just adjust it until it feels right.... as slack free as possible without any drag as the wheel is turned.------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
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SugarlandStang
Journeyman Posts: 98
From: Sugar Land, TX
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 04-29-2006 10:29 PM
The smaller (shorter) tires fixed the bump steer (rub) issue. It also fixed the floating issue. I guess with the nose down somewhat, it didn't catch as much air.
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