|
Author
|
Topic: Subframe and Weld
|
inline6.1
Gearhead Posts: 155
From:
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 06-10-2006 06:58 PM
 
I m getting ready to install subframe connectors on my 65. Does really matter if the cars not perfectly level? What would happen if it wasn't level? thanks guys
|
V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4777
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
|
posted 06-10-2006 07:04 PM
Idealy, you want the chassis loaded as if it were sitting level. This means either using a hoist, or jackstands under the front control arms and out back under the rear end housing. Tying the subframes together is an process to add rigidity, right? You want it rigid in it's correct state of preload  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" 12.58/110 on street tires, more to come;) All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
|
Darryl Eichenlaub
Gearhead Posts: 124
From: Buckley,Wa.
Registered: Dec 2005
|
posted 06-11-2006 04:17 AM
I agree with Thumper, when I installed my subframe connectors I had the weight of the car on the wheels. I put car ramps under the front tires and jack stands out back. It doesn't have to be perfectly level either.------------------
Darryl Eichenlaub
1965 Mustang Coupe restomod 289,c4,body and interior mods.
1956 F-100 460,c6,9" major body mods, on going project.
1967 Mustang Fastback, father/son project 5.0,5spd,9".
1975 F250 4x4 Highboy 390,4spd,35",custom paint.
2002 Mustang v6,5spd, daughters college ride.
2001 Ford Escape, Wifes grocery getter.
|
Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
|
posted 06-11-2006 06:14 AM
Given a choice, you'd want it square and level.
If you don't get it level from end to end, at the very least it needs to be absolutely square from side to side at both the front and the back. If you raise the front 20" and raise the back 15", that could be okay, but if you raise the front left 20" and the front right 19", you will twist the body and then permanently weld in that twist when you install the connectors.
|
F15Falcon
Gearhead Posts: 109
From: el paso, tx.
Registered: Jan 2005
|
posted 06-11-2006 12:25 PM
Installing a piece of thinwall tubing like a subframe connector in a car is not going to be critical as installing a 12" I-beam in a steel framed building. The car is going to be more rigid, but any twist that is in the chassis when the connectors are installed will twist back to where the car needs to be because a subframe connector is just not that rigid, unless you are installing some 2" x 10" x .120 heavy duty connectors. I install lots of connectors in my fab shop with the car lifted up on my two post lift because that is the best way to be able to weld them properly. The front and rear wheels are not loaded at the time when they are welded, and I have never had a problem with a car with connectors installed in this fashion. Now if we are talking about a 10 or 12 point rollcage, the car does need to be perfectly level as the cage will add lots of rigidity to the chassis, and any twist in the chassis will likely stay where it is. My advice is to safely support the car, and weld them in.
|
inline6.1
Gearhead Posts: 155
From:
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 06-12-2006 09:41 PM
What about welding in the traction bars does it matter if its jacked up or not, because the bars can move up and down not back and forth.?
|
Aussie XAXB
Gearhead Posts: 131
From: North Olmsted, Ohio
Registered: Jan 2006
|
posted 06-12-2006 10:00 PM
I would weld the front traction bar brackets with the car on the ground. This way the rear axle will be in the middle of it's travel, permitting the most range of travel in the rear axle since it's travel will be limited by the pivot point of the front bracket.I have to respectfully disagree to a point with F15Falcon on the subframe install. The connectors I welded on my wife's 66 are 1" x 2" tubing with .100" thick walls. Rectangular tubing is structural and therefore more rigid as opposed to a solid piece. Also it is not round. With the end brackets being welded all around I believe they would hold whatever geometry the car is in when welded, front to back anyways. If the front and rear ends are not loaded then that weight is hanging off the ends and can cause a stress in the middle with the supporting contact points being closer together than the wheel base. Just how much affect that has and if it is enough to be siginificant DOES remain to be known. If you have never had a problem with a 4 wheel alignment after installing subframe connectors in such a manner then perhaps the weight that hangs is not significant enough to cause a detriment to chassis geometry. However I would have to say it is optimal to have the vehicle as close to ride condition as possible when installing the subfarme connectors. ------------------
My Mad Max Interceptor Project http://xaxbinterceptor.tripod.com Wife's 1966 Mustang Site http://purplestang66.tripod.com My Custom Part Site http://www.artisticmachine.com
|
Darryl Eichenlaub
Gearhead Posts: 124
From: Buckley,Wa.
Registered: Dec 2005
|
posted 06-12-2006 10:22 PM
Again I'm here to second an opinion, I'm with Aussie on this. I did an early Nova (I know,I know but we all had to start somewhere ) with everything hanging in the air. When I was finished I had a huge chassis squeak when you go over bumps and all my gaps were off. Now I no doubt beleive some get away with just hanging everything in the air. But I beleive it's best to be with the weight on the wheels.
|
65coupei6
Gearhead Posts: 458
From: S.F., CA
Registered: May 2000
|
posted 06-12-2006 10:52 PM
Maybe this will help.http://65coupei6.mustangindex.com/subframe.html ------------------
Marco S.
65coupei6@onebox.com
Ford Inline Performance
MustangIndex-The Classic Mustang Search Engine & Web Directory
|
inline6.1
Gearhead Posts: 155
From:
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 06-13-2006 09:42 PM
I bought Maier's subframe connectors thinking they were better, let me just say i will not buy from them again. They don't line up and i know my car's frame is not out that much. Probably some a hole forgot to bend them in the right spot. Anyways if you weld it up right and don't leave any holes why would it sqeak? ALSO they have holes for bolts but i don't think its a good idea, keeping in mind that the SUB CONNS are thicker steel than that on the car i wouldn't want to compromise the existing frame rails? Any thoughts ! thanks
|
Darryl Eichenlaub
Gearhead Posts: 124
From: Buckley,Wa.
Registered: Dec 2005
|
posted 06-14-2006 12:46 AM
I did the Nova for a buddy, we put the jack stands as far apart as possiable. This let the car sag in the middle. After all the welding was done and back on the ground the door gaps were off. The squeak was coming from the floor??? My buddy totaled the car before we could chase down the noise.I had the same thought about drilling holes and bolting. When I installed my "Tinman Fabrcation Connectors" I welded them completely. On a side note I tied in my Shelby bars and made brackets to bolt the roll bar also. I'm very pleased with how stiff this all came out.
|
