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Author
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Topic: Brake Lights
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-13-2006 11:06 PM
 
okay...noticed today, in my 65 coupe, that my brake lights aren't coming on WITH NORMAL PRESSURE....if, at a complete stop, I push HARD on the pedal, they'll come on.......again, with normal brake pressure, they don't do anything...the brakes are great, little/no play in the pedal and stops straight as an arrow.....is this adjustable ???....how ??? (these are non-power, drum brakes)------------------
Without life there could be no music, but without music, there can be no life.
1973 Convertible, 1965 A Code 4spd coupe, Past: 1969 GT, 1967 6cyl coupe, 1968 coupe
Two Rivers Ford, Parts Dept., Nashville, TN
www.geocities.com/littlewhitecoupe
www.geocities.com/jezebeldream
www.geocities.com/my73conv
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-13-2006 11:51 PM
Its not adjustable, but there are two different switches that have different strength springs. One is for original manual brakes, the other is for original power brakes.
The fun part is trying to determine which one you have, and then buy the other one.
If you take it off and bring it to the parts store, you will be able to tell by comparing them side by side. Just try to push the flat plunger with your thumbs and see if you can compress it. One style will be easy to push, the other one almost impossible.
Unfortunately by brain is getting old and feeble and I don't remember which is which 
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-13-2006 11:54 PM
it would stand to reason that the easy one would be the manual brake one....right ???
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-13-2006 11:55 PM
on the same subject...I mentioned that there is literally no travel in the brake pedal....is this good or bad ???....when you touch the pedal, you start slowing down...
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-14-2006 12:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
it would stand to reason that the easy one would be the manual brake one....right ???
Or the easy one could be due to a lighter touch required with power brakes.
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-14-2006 12:15 AM
okay...true.....but could my lack of pedal travel be a cause for them not coming on....in other words, are my brakes (drum, remember) set too tight ???
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indyphil
Gearhead Posts: 3394
From: Senoia, G.A. USA
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 06-14-2006 10:24 AM
it may not be the drums adjusted wrong, it could be the rod in the master cylinder. I seem to remember adjusting mine a little, but theres a whole procedure to it.
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-14-2006 10:54 AM
just got off the phone with Mark Stacy of Stacy's Concourse Restorations in Lebanon, TN....he said to check the rear wheel cylinders and make sure that the back brakes are actually working...if they're frozen (or the proportioning valve is stopped up) it can cause an extreemly firm pedal, which would affect the brake light switch.Scott....according to the microfische, there's only one stoplight switch for 65...power or manual......67-up is where there are two
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-14-2006 03:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
Scott....according to the microfische, there's only one stoplight switch for 65...power or manual......67-up is where there are two
I don't doubt the microfiche says that. Ford parts books also listed a stripe kit for a 1971 Boss 302 that was never made, so errors have been known to happen. Standard Ignition Parts has two application part numbers for it. If I can get the part numbers I'll post them.
UPDATE:
1965 (64 1/2) generator cars use SLS-27
1965 alternator cars use SLS-69
1966 all cars use SLS-69
1967 manual brake SLS-69
1967 power brake SLS-67
You could try the SLS-67 switch to see if it helps. They DO have different spring tension. It also possible your master cylinder pushrod is too long. A little shorter and you'll get a little travel before activation. It will still take foot pressure to overcome the spring and activate the switch. [This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 06-14-2006).]
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-14-2006 04:03 PM
is the pushrod adjustable ???
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sprcoop
Gearhead Posts: 780
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 06-14-2006 04:15 PM
The stock pushrod, no. I believe adjustable ones are available though.
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-14-2006 04:35 PM
If you have a stock pedal and a stock master cylinder, there should be no reason to adjust it.
If its been converted to something else, that's the reason for the mis-match. You won't be able to remove the stock pushrod, it locks into a grove in the master cylinder piston.
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-14-2006 05:07 PM
I believe it's all stock....therefore...probably going to be a frozen wheel cylinder causing the firm pedal...correct ???
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-16-2006 05:07 PM
to Scott and everyone else who posted advice here:
I APOLOGIZE....please keep in mind this is my first '65....every time someone mentioned "brake light switch"...I pictured a switch ON the brake PEDAL....I didn't think that was the problem because they WOULD work, just not correctly.....the switches that are located on the pedal are either good or bad, no in-between......had a friend come over and look at it with me and he told me the switch is located ON THE MASTER CYLINDER  ......those switches, he said, can "slowly go out"....replaced the switch....and bam brake lights, working correctly. I apologize to everyone for my "misunderstanding" of what you were trying to say.......and thank you for helping
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-16-2006 09:23 PM
Glad you got it worked out!
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-17-2006 09:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Scott H:
1965 (64 1/2) generator cars use SLS-27 [This message has been edited by Scott H (edited 06-14-2006).]
So was this the part number he installed?
And your car must have a build date of somewhere around or before sept 64?
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sprcoop
Gearhead Posts: 780
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 06-17-2006 10:58 AM
That's funny. My 66' has the switch on the brake pedal and has gone out twice (stayed on all the time). I didn't have any idea they were ever any place else (master cylinder). Learn something new every day on M&M.
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-19-2006 09:38 AM
I was told by my friend, that they either have a switch one place or the other....never two....don't know if this is true or not....but mine only has the one....Scott...my build date makes it a full '65...*shrug*....
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 317
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-19-2006 04:30 PM
Hmmm, thats kinda weird. Are you referring to the switch that is located on the proportioning valve/distribution block (brass piece that has all of the brake lines going to it)? Never heard of a switch on the actual mastercylinder unless you are using a late model M/C, but those switches are used to turn the cruise control off when the brake pedal is applied (ford recall for all of those vehicle fires...but that's another topic). The switch on the prop valve causes the Brake light to come on in the dash. This occurs when the plunger inside of the prop valve is not centered and you are getting different pressures to each brake. Then there is the brake switch that mounts to the master cylinder pushrod (if not power brake car, then it's on the booster pushrod) and slips over the knob on the brake pedal. Keep in mind this switch is different for power vs. non-power brake cars. Glad you got it figured out, but i'm curious where this switch is on the mastercylinder. Thanks!!!------------------
1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang
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ericcasas
Journeyman Posts: 99
From: Austin, TX
Registered: May 2005
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posted 06-19-2006 06:15 PM
I've got an even bigger nightmare w/ my tail-lights. Some how or another, they were wired in a way so that it basically 'tricks' the car into thinking that a turn signal is on constantly but on both sides. My brake light wires get routed through my turnsignal switch in the steering wheel. I don't think that is normal. Anyway, my car hasn't been on the street much in the last four years but now they dont work at all. I've purchased every wiring diagram that I can find for the car and there isn't much detailed breakdown for how it's supposed to be set up. I just rebuilt the entire clutch linkage (seeing as how the play was so bad that the clutch pedal could actually hit the brake pedal!!!) and I replaced the brake switch there just for precaution. Anyone have a good wiring diagram for the '67 model year w/ manual brakes?? I'm sure my system was rigged in the past and I need to start trying to revert to factory specs. Sorry to hijack thread.-E ------------------
http://ericcasas.mustangsandmore.ws
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-19-2006 06:38 PM
this is the switch that was bad....according to John, the pressure of the fluid is what triggers the switch and turns on the brake lights......
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sprcoop
Gearhead Posts: 780
From: Tucson, AZ usa
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 06-19-2006 07:10 PM
That looks just like the jelly jar I took off of my 66' but I don't recognise the switch. I don't think my jelly jar even had a port for it. I recommend changing to a dual bowl MC for safety's sake.
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 317
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-19-2006 10:23 PM
I've never seen that switch before, but i'm not too familiar with the single bowl M/C's. I'd highly recommend switching to a dual bowl if you drive this car frequently. If the bowl gets plugged, then you have ZERO brakes. If a bowl gets plugged in a dual bowl, you at least have half of the brakes.------------------
1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang
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Scott H
Gearhead Posts: 1480
From: Chicago area
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 06-19-2006 11:45 PM
That's the right master cylinder and the right switch for early model 65'sThe 65 and 66 cars don't have a dash mounted brake light, so they don't have the distribution block switch either. That started in 67
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-20-2006 12:55 AM
dash mounted brake light ???.......oh you mean idiot light ???....hmmm....no, I don't guess mine does.....btw, the production date for this car is March 17, 1965
here's the breakdown:
Body=65A--2dr coupe
Color=M--white
Trim=22--standard
Date=17Q--3/17/65
DSO=73--Salt Lake City, UT
Axle=A--3:00/1, limited slip
Trans=5--4spd manualwould that be considered "early" ???
also, what is involved with converting to a dual bowl master cylinder ???
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