|
Author
|
Topic: Interior Removed - Rust Repair
|
69 Sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 2814
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 08-30-2006 08:09 PM
 
The seats and carpet are now out of the 68 and the driver's side front floor up to the seat platform and both toe boards are going to have to be replaced. The inner rockers are both ok as is the frame rail underneath the driver's floor. I suspect there's a leak in both sides of the cowl so I'll be looking into getting that fixed, hopefully from under the dash as I dont' want to cut into the outside of the car since it has really nice paint. Looks like the original carpet and underlayment was still in the car but it came out in pieces. It was about as dryrotted as you can get. As soon as I can, I'll get some pictures posted. Anyone know what amount of money I'll be looking at for labor for the floors?
|
jay67fast
Gearhead Posts: 146
From: Boca Raton, Florida,U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 08-30-2006 08:14 PM
Dave,
Try this URL, It may interest you. www.stephanies-mustang.com/cowl2.htm Maybe you can avoid cutting up the car.
Hope this helps,
Jay67fast
|
68 S-code GT
Gearhead Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 08-30-2006 09:38 PM
If the cowl looks fine it might be the sealer between the lower cowl and the side panel behind the kick panel.
|
69 Sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 2814
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 08-31-2006 12:52 AM
Thanks for the link. She did a good job. The only thing she doesn't mention is how she sealed up the top of the cowl when she cut the drain cover open. Or did I just miss it?We washed and waxed the car Sunday evening and I didn't notice any water inside when we finished so I have some investigating to do.
|
jay67fast
Gearhead Posts: 146
From: Boca Raton, Florida,U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 08-31-2006 08:55 AM
Dave,
I think the key to this is that any cutting was done where the fender would cover it when installed. No, I don't remember her saying exactly how the cut area was re-attached, but I would guess that the cut could be welded closed and sealed thoroughly. The fender would cover it all, anyway, once it was installed.
The whole idea seemed like a great idea, especially for those of us whose cars are oterwise complete.
I don't know about you, but taking the whole front of the car apart to open the cowl turns me to jelly!!! I guess I must be getting old, these big jobs are beginning to scare me!!!
jay67fast
|
mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 8198
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 09-01-2006 09:54 AM
Do not believe that the top should be cut off WITHOUT investigating first. Bloo is a borderline case. First: With a 68 that steering column could have been removed for better access. Then a more sastifactory repair could be done. That area under fender should have had new metal welded in.Several years ago, not having a good welder, had cut open a cowl like that. Was able to do a decent repair. With manila folders, made a mock up of a replacement piece and went to a sheetmetal shop. They made up a cover piece-love those sheetmetal breaks! Painted the backside, let dry overnite, and screwd it with stainless metal tecs. I used a two part epoxy(just like the fusor stuff that shops use) and epoxied it in also. Many a cowl leak as come from that area. Have done side entrance deal on a couple cars and it works...to a degree. Cut out the rusted chimneys first-using a die grinder with a 3" disc. Once they are out a more complete examination can be done. If putting hand inside, tape the cut edges!!! If the rust has gone high up where it can't be repaired correctly, then it's time for the cowl top removal. If the area of rust is on the flat part, and some of the vertical part, it can be repaired-but not in the manner shown. Provision shoud be made to reinforce the ring on the driver side vent, so the vent can be re-attached, after completion, with nuts, to existing studs like it was originally made. Know this is long post but:This repair am talking about was on a car with excellent paint. With care got fenders off and on with no chips. It's just as cheap to buy new cowl repair sections and use what you need out of them. Still more cost effective than removing the top and all the related stuff along with it!! I did buy the repo pieces along with the plastic high hats that were used on Bloo. Had been able to get inside and make repairs that would last and was able to steel wool the inside for paint. Here's the controversial part!  CUT the steel chimneys OUT of the new cowl section parts I was using!
Reason: It is impossible to effect a LASTING repair with them in ie using hands inside, etc. The cut down pieces were then attached with the epoxy, making sure the lapped edges were clean, shot in some stainless steel tecs for reinforcement and allowed to dry. Was also able to use epoxy inside allowed to dry. Next day got the car prepped to paint inside, ie covering everything and I mean everything. Taped off a 1/2" ring around each opening, had a helper holding towel over the top vents. Shot in some zinc rich primer using a touchup gun shooting a straight spray at high pressure! Sat for a spell, mixed up some quality black cover coat, did the same! Allowed to dry for a couple days. Took the plastic high hats,roughed up the edges to be epoxied, with 40 grit paper used more than enough epoxy to cover the "ring" that I had taped(now giving me bare metal for the epoxy to totally cover) and pressed them to fit using a small bottle jack with a piece of wood against the base-overnite dry. On the driver side especially, covered the threaded studs so that the vent could be reattached in the correct manner. Covering also, the part where the heater attaches on pass side. Re the plastic top hats: They will last indefinitely if installed in the correct manner ie NO silicone!! Those hats were invented by the local Mustang guy over 20 years ago. MMonthly ran an article then. Their experience taught them to use a permanent adhesive. They are only as good as the metal they are attached to. If the surrounding area is bad they will be bad. Even the original top hats on the repop pieces are spot welded on and will leak if NOT properly sealed-and it aint silicone! That repair was done on a 66 Mustang cvt that had beautiful paint and body and was done at a good shop. The cowl never got fixed. Was able to buy that car at a very good price as the people did not have a garage and they gave up on the Fl. rains! Took out the smelly underlayment, got new along with carpet and put back in. Pulled the column outer off and left the spear when working. Also pulled the underdash wiring-this car was way to good for 1/2 a$$ work. Even reshot the underdash area before putting back, and the black steel vent housing. I wanted, and got, top dollar. Was hard not wanting to keep that one-repaired it like it was mine(that I would keep) Come to think of it, that's the way repairs SHOULD be done.
|
John Z
Gearhead Posts: 506
From: Morgantown, WV
Registered: Jul 99
|
posted 09-02-2006 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jay67fast:
Dave,
Try this URL, It may interest you. www.stephanies-mustang.com/cowl2.htm Maybe you can avoid cutting up the car.
Hope this helps,
Jay67fast
I now own that car and the cowl leaks when I wash the car. Haven't driven in the rain enoough to know if that is a problem.
|
crawlerchris
Journeyman Posts: 11
From: Space Coast , Florida
Registered: Jun 2006
|
posted 09-02-2006 08:51 PM
Cut the cowl outer panel off and fix it right . With the new inner repop panels for the 67's out , there is no reason to not fix the cowl correctly .
Down the road you will be pissed that you did not take the time to remove the cowl and weld in new metal .
|
jay67fast
Gearhead Posts: 146
From: Boca Raton, Florida,U.S.A.
Registered: Nov 2004
|
posted 09-02-2006 10:38 PM
John,
Well, that takes the maybe out of the equation!!!! Thanks for the reply, it says a lot. Just goes to prove---do it right the first time!
Jay67fast
|
mellowyellow
Gearhead Posts: 8198
From: So. Fl.
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 09-03-2006 01:12 AM
Can go along with the do it right deal as I had to do it on the 66 as mentioned. But...no two cowl rust outs are the same. The car I mentioned above was repairable-just! When a car has an expensive paint job, perhaps with a color hard to match, it is worth a try. A value judgement cannot be made until it is examined and evaluated. Beyond that it is contempt before investigation.Am not surprised that the bloo car leaks.Viewing that how to would tell one that. Seeing that every one wants to do it right, they would then take out everything to do that. To not is to not do it right. So, if when doing it right, taking everything out and cutting out the rotting tophats, the job just might be repairable without removal. To do this job without removing wiring, and related parts would be a "no way" deal and "not right". Even with a repair without removing top, the fenders should probably be removed. I would never do this job for anyone but would do it right if I was going to sell the car in quest. That cvt that I did does not leak to this day. How do I know?? The owner left it out at a show and it poured. Jay: Having seen your car, and if you had a cowl prob., and you kept it in garage, would probably not do it. And if it did need repair would investigate all methods by removing all the stuff underdash and checking. FIRST. Use your car as an example because it has an excellent paint job and would not want to jump in and do a from the top job IF there was a satisfactory, lasting alternative. And...if the top had to be removed ala 140 spot welds, removing hood, w/shield, trim, fenders,(which involves removing bumper, grille and headlite bodies, valance, etc, etc).....you would still have to clear the underside of dash to make way for the parts that would need to be cut out. So I guess the point is: look before we leap.
Possibly it could be done. It is not a job for the feint of heart and it truly sux. Having done that repair both ways, I'd look first. BTW Good cowl cover can be made by taking templates to a sign shop and getting magnetic sign material to fit the recessed openings.
|
crawlerchris
Journeyman Posts: 11
From: Space Coast , Florida
Registered: Jun 2006
|
posted 09-03-2006 10:23 AM
IF they used the new repop lower cowl panel , they might not have to clear the dash . Yes , with the side pieces , clearing the dash would have to happen .
If the repop is used it could be welded around the firewall lip , as the factory did and that would mean no stray heat into the dash area .
The dash firewall insulation pad would need to be pulled loose and layed over a bit but should be able to do that once the lower cowl panel was removed and then push it back into place when the welding was done , from under the dash .
If done slowly , and something used to trap the heat (like one of eastwoods heat-fencing products) , a repaint would not be needed .
A touch up of the seam sealer along the firewall lip with a shot of paint (either black or body color) would be needed . Some touch up along the windshield opening would be also required but it will be hidden by the windshield gasket / stainless trim so color matching is no worry .
It can be done without a major repaint , just added care and time to the weld areas to control weld splatter and heat + protection of the car to prevent damage from grinding the welds smooth .
|
69 Sportsroof
Gearhead Posts: 2814
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 09-05-2006 10:46 AM
Thanks for all the replies. Very good info, especially using epoxy instead of silicone. I've also discovered that the driver's side floor support will need to be replaced.
|
zieber
Gearhead Posts: 172
From: Central Coast, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
|
posted 11-30-2006 05:31 PM
Just for the record, I used the plastic cowl hat patches and seem to have stopped a small leak for now.I used epoxy on both sides and the left side still leaked, due I believe to the fact that the metal was slightly warped. I pulled off the left hat and reapplied it with the silicone included in the kit.
|
John Z
Gearhead Posts: 506
From: Morgantown, WV
Registered: Jul 99
|
posted 11-30-2006 06:09 PM
Since this has popped up again, an update.
I do not know why there was water in the car when I washed it one time, I haven't had the problem since. I drove the car 698 miles on the Tuesday and Wednesday before thanksgiving. This included driving through some significant rain but no water got inside.
One of the jobs that Stef did not get done was to reinstall the fresh air vent on the driver's side. I finally got around to this a couple of weeks ago. One of the retainer studs was so rusted that it twisted off with very little torque.
| |
