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Author
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Topic: got some headers. now some questions
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-18-2006 08:15 PM
 
Got a set of hooker headers. Used with a old cermic coating (is the right?). Looks like a do it your self job. They were sand blasted but did not take off the coating. Bought them from a friend for $50. Price is right. SHould fit. If they don't he will buy them back. Anyway not sure what to do with them. Figured since they were already coated I would just paint them silver with header paint and put them on with 2.5" pipe to a x followed by glass packs or flowmasters. Any better suggestions? How much hp can I expect with these on the car? Thanks very much for any and all input. Richard.
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rmousir
'66 Mustang Coupe
Ford Blue & white stripes
95 roller 302, C4 Auto
Offy 360 intake & Holley 4 bl carb
grab-a-track 620s, 4.5 leafs, 1.25" drop blocks
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-18-2006 08:29 PM
If you have stock exhaust manifolds now? I'd guess another 20-40hp?
If they are coated they don't needed to be painted, if they are just painted. Then take the time now to sand them real good. And paint them with a good high heat paint. I used BBQ high heat from Home Depote. It worked good and was cheaper then header paint. Something Alex told me about some time ago.------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-19-2006 09:10 AM
really ???........a set of long tube headers, by themselves, will get you another 20-40 hp ???
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-19-2006 10:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by honeyburst:
really ???........a set of long tube headers, by themselves, will get you another 20-40 hp ???
Well sure...kinda,,,, maybe... it depends. I'm sure that the HP increase range provided by Ron is quite variable & dependent on what tune Richard's engine is in, what mods have been done, and especially in the level of restrictions the remaining exhaust system will possess. As Ron indicated with his ? marks, is Richard running OEM cast exhaust manifolds or what? It's a fact that cast-iron 289/302W exhaust manifolds are very restrictive when compared to awesome long-tube headers. Then there's Tri-Ys, then equal length, unequal length, shortie-tubes, then mid-80s/early 90s stainless steel OE headers, all of which have varing degrees of improved "breathability" when compared to cast-iron exhaust manifolds. However, will Richard have the header collectors sent into a 2.5" system including a H or X pipe then a pair of unrestrictive turbo mufflers and mandrel-bent turndowns or not? If Richard necks the headers down at the collectors, shoots them into 1.5" exhaust piping, bent/crimped up 15 times, then into super restrictive mufflers, then into more small, twisted tail piping,,,then, NO - the potential HP benefit the headers COULD of provided won't be realized. This brings us back to the realization that the exhaust system is part of the engine performance SYSTEM. And once one side is made less restrictive then - to better BALANCE the engine combination - more adjustment/changes at the intake side (carb, air cleaner, etc.) should be performed to optimize the engine COMBINATION modification. "You can't let out what can't get in." Ryan  Remember that cast-iron exhaust manifolds have their place: They're quieter, they will keep the engine compartment cooler and take up less space than most headers.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-19-2006 10:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
And paint them with a good high heat paint.
Something else to consider - in addition to what looks good to YOU & YOUR budget limits - if you paint or coat your headers silver or white they will "throw" or radiate less heat into the engine compartment than if you paint/coat them black. Thus, your sparkplug wires, etc. will be happier and live longer.
Ryan
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-19-2006 10:32 AM
okay.......not trying to steal the thread....but I have one more question on the subject  .......a slightly warmed 289 (272 cam, edlebrock intake, 600 cfm carb)....with stock heads (might port/polish)....long tube Hooker headers into 2.5" pipe, 40 series flowmasters, 45 degree bend coming out in front of the rear wheels..... good - bad - ugly ???
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-19-2006 10:46 AM
good
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-19-2006 01:08 PM
Thanks Ryan thats exactly what I was trying to say. I've just had my head up my @$$ lately. Richard help us out with some more info.
He did say in his first post that he was going to add " 2.5" pipe to a x followed by glass packs or flowmasters."
With his intake and carb and if the motor his in good shape. I don't see why a good exhaust SYSTEM with long tube headers couldn't add clsoe to 20hp?[This message has been edited by Fastymz (edited 09-19-2006).]
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-19-2006 03:10 PM
Ron, I hear ya & agree with ya 110%; for what we know Richard has and what he is proposing to do, I would guess he will more than likely be rewarded with an easy 20+HP increase. My lengthy sermon  was aimed at HoneyBurst's comment "......a set of long tube headers, by themselves , will get you another 20-40 hp ??". I simply didn't want HB to misinterpret or think (or anyone else reading this thread) that ANYONE WITH ANY COMBO would see an automatic increase of 20 to 40HP by just bolting on long-tube headers BY THEMSELVES and doing nothing else. (Yeah, sometimes I get too literal here. I stomp on into someone's thread thinking I can be of assistance, but sometimes my attempt ends up causing more confusion than being helpful. I'm sorry, Ron.) Ryan [This message has been edited by Ryan Wilke (edited 09-19-2006).]
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-19-2006 03:22 PM
Opps...again. [This message has been edited by Ryan Wilke (edited 09-19-2006).]
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-19-2006 05:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan Wilke:
(Yeah, sometimes I get too literal here. I stomp on into someone's thread thinking I can be of assistance, but sometimes my attempt ends up causing more confusion than being helpful. I'm sorry, Ron.) Ryan [This message has been edited by Ryan Wilke (edited 09-19-2006).]
Nothing to be sorry about, your reply was right on the money. You gave a much better details and helpful info then mine did. And your right headers alone way or way not add any power? Thanks
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oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-19-2006 05:17 PM
Like I said earlier the headers are coated but the coating does not look so good. I will paint them silver I think .As for my motor and mods. Here goes. 95 roller came 302 out of a mustang gt
holly 600 cfm 4 bl carb
offy 360 alum dual plain intake
flex fan
3 row radiator
all new wires/wiring/spark/etc
pertronix ignition with 40,000 volt coil. Plan is to paint the headers (I think they are hooker) and install them with a 2.5" pipe to a x pipe to glass packs or dual chamber flowmasters depending on cost. Where do you think I will be and what gains would I get. Thanks very much. I can get pics of the headers if that would help. Richard. ------------------
rmousir
'66 Mustang Coupe
Ford Blue & white stripes
95 roller 302, C4 Auto
Offy 360 intake & Holley 4 bl carb
grab-a-track 620s, 4.5 leafs, 1.25" drop blocks
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buening
Gearhead Posts: 317
From: Decatur, IL
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 09-19-2006 05:53 PM
Not sure if any of you guys are a member on the Vintage Mustang website, but someone there found a website that has the 2.5" Stainless Magnaflow exhaust kits for around $350 shipped. You can't even get a custom aluminized exhaust for that. The head pipes end near the collectors on Hooker longtubes. Below is a link of some pics of my stainless Magnaflow kit and below that link is the VMF thread (long) with the website and discount code. Make sure you read farther down the posts because someone discovered a better discount code. Just another option fellas, depending on your budget  http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1438025/
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1437873/tp/1/
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1970 Grabber Blue Mach 1 H-code
1970 Fastback
2003 Torch Red Mustang
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-19-2006 06:10 PM
If you want a pair of 2.5" summit racing turbo mufflers let me know. $30 for the pair?------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-19-2006 06:35 PM
while we're on the subject......I think I'm limited in space for what I want to do.....anyone ever use the Flowmaster single chamber "Delta Force" muffler ???
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-19-2006 06:47 PM
The single chamber are really darn LOUD! I'm a new mangnaflow user myself. I used flowmasters for years,3 chambers and 2 chamber mufflers. Nothing could make me go back to them! I like the sound of the manga flows much better. More quite at idle more loud at WOT.
Look at the manga or ultra flow mufflers for a better choice over the flowmaster.
Just my .02------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-19-2006 06:48 PM
no problem with the volume.......and I'm willing to try anything......but I've always loved that "metallic", "hollow" sound.....know what I'm talking about ???
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-19-2006 06:53 PM
Yes I do,then stick with the flowmaster. They will give you the best ALLOW tin can sound out there. The motor as a lot to do with the exhaust note too. Bigger cam helps,but a higher power motor will always make a deeper,meaner sound.
MORE POWER!!! ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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honeyburst
Gearhead Posts: 846
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 09-19-2006 06:57 PM
so how big of a cam can one realistically use without loosing low end torque ???........(manual trans)....stock heads, nothing special about the motor....
272-280 ???......
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Fastymz
Moderator Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-19-2006 06:59 PM
Your cam is plenty for yur motor. I was just saying more powerful motors tend to have a meaner sound to them. Ever felt the ground shake when a 1000hp car drives by.  Nothing says power like that.  ------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs HOOD HACKERS DELIGHT!
My Pics 13.563 @ 108.64
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-19-2006 07:02 PM
I would like my car to sound like that. So with my set up what kind of hp will I likely pick up? Anyone with a estimate of hp that the motor will have total with the exhaust? I was told 265-275 but I think that is high and wanted to ask you folks. You are my trusted experts. Richard.
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 09-19-2006 07:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rmousir:
...As for my motor...
95 roller came 302 out of a mustang gt
holly 600 cfm 4 bl carb
offy 360 alum dual plain intake
flex fan
3 row radiator
all new wires/wiring/spark/etc
pertronix ignition with 40,000 volt coil.
...headers and install them with a 2.5" pipe to a x pipe to glass packs or dual chamber flowmasters... Where do you think I will be and what gains would I get.
First off, I'll answer your question; I don't know where you will be nor what gains you'll realize.
Now with that said, let's recall that the '95 GT 302 was rated at 215HP and 285ft# of torque when it was BRAND NEW. I'm guessing with it's stock heads it made somewhere around 8.5/1 compression. It's a fun ride, but we can agree, it's no 428CJ... Although you've improved the "breathing" with a better intake & carb, and you will be improving the breathing further with a free-flowing header/exhaust system, I doubt that you'll be "knocking on the 300HP door" just yet. However, I'm sure you're quickly approaching the 'lack of traction' problem. I'd guess your next upgrade will likely be in the chassis dept.... such as subframe connectors, a traction-loc differential and lower (higher numerically) rearend gears -- because you NEED IT & WANT IT! (Oh yeah, a Trick Shift kit and aux. cooler installed into your C4 would also be nice; Tire chirps at the shift points ALWAYS put smiles on the driver, guaranteed! ) Since you've already installed the grab-a-track 620s, 4.5 leafs and 1.25" drop blocks,,, it sounds like a somewhat stiff-riding cruiser/show car or mild road racer... you haven't said what direction or end use you want with your '66? Ryan
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-26-2006 10:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fastymz:
If they are coated they don't needed to be painted, if they are just painted. Then take the time now to sand them real good. And paint them with a good high heat paint.
They are coated but the coating is old and my friend did try to blast them so it does not look good in a couple of spots. Luckly he gave up early in the job. Should I leave the coating on there or have them blasted? What does the coating do? If I blast them should I have them coated again. What does coating cost? Suggestions? I am planning on doing this in November after I do the disc brakes. Thanks for the info folks. Richard. ------------------
rmousir
'66 Mustang Coupe
Ford Blue & white stripes
95 roller 302, C4 Auto
Offy 360 intake & Holley 4 bl carb
grab-a-track 620s, 4.5 leafs, 1.25" drop blocks
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 09-26-2006 10:58 PM
If they were mine, I would take them down to as far as it takes to make sure there's no rust, and spray them with high-heat flat black. Cost is a factor here, if you're gonna be out just as much getting them right as a new set, why not go new? JMHO------------------
William
M&M# 4256
MCA# 64831 68 Coupe
289
C4
3:55's/Trac-Lok
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 09-26-2006 11:05 PM
Richard,The coating on the header sounds like it's most likely a jet hot or hpc type coating.This is a ceramic coating that has aluminum mixed in it.The purpose of coating the header is twofold, first it makes the header look nice and helps prevent rust from forming, secondly it insulates the tubing which helps retain heat and produces a slightly better exhaust flow and consequently more power.
Over in the racing forum on another post, Alex suggested finding a local powder coater.I think in your case this would be a good idea. If nothing else they could probably remove the coating so you can paint it yourself or possibly recoat the header using a similar type coating.Good luck! [This message has been edited by Mark Ugrich (edited 09-26-2006).]
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65whitestang
Gearhead Posts: 111
From: Eastern,CT
Registered: Jun 2006
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posted 09-27-2006 08:35 AM
I have a set of hooker headers that were
chrome to begin with. The chrome now looks
terrible. I don't know how old they are as
they came with the car. They do fit excellent with the five speed I have in. I would like to have them redone at some point. Curious to what you end up using..
Can you find a part/model number on your headers somewhere? I looked while in the car,but can't find one. Can you take a look at yours while their out?
Thanks------------------
Bill M
Mystic,CT
65 Convertible
9"rear,5 speed conversion,currently
powered by a 302
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 09-27-2006 08:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 65whitestang:
I have a set of hooker headers that were
chrome to begin with. The chrome now looks
terrible. I don't know how old they are as
they came with the car. They do fit excellent with the five speed I have in. I would like to have them redone at some point. Curious to what you end up using..
Can you find a part/model number on your headers somewhere? I looked while in the car,but can't find one. Can you take a look at yours while their out?
Thanks
I will check them out next week and see what I can find on them. Looked at them for a moment tonight when I moved them from one pile of parts to another. (tonights project was new door locks ). Anyway they look not so nice. I was thinking I could just paint them and put them in the car but I will check around and see what it will cost to blast them. I got a good deal on them and if I can use them and save a buck or two I am happy. This is a low buck project. Kids got to eat. Also was thinking about buying the header heat wrap. That would cover the headers and look ok to wouldn't it. Is the heat wrap for that? Not really sure? Richard. ------------------
rmousir
'66 Mustang Coupe
Ford Blue & white stripes
95 roller 302, C4 Auto
Offy 360 intake & Holley 4 bl carb
grab-a-track 620s, 4.5 leafs, 1.25" drop blocks
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 09-27-2006 11:06 PM
I've never used the heat wrap stuff, but the idea behind it is the same as using a ceramic barrier coating, to keep heat in the header.
The wrap material will insulate the header but also promotes condensation and rust.In my opinion not a good idea.
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68 Coop
Gearhead Posts: 5847
From: Mesquite, NV. 89027
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted 09-28-2006 12:10 AM
If you take a little time and sand them down to where the coating blends into the pipe, hit them with some flat black high temp primer, and they will last you till they rot. If they get thrashed over time, you're out a couple cans of paint. Your choice, but makes sense to me.------------------
William
M&M# 4256
MCA# 64831 68 Coupe
289
C4
3:55's/Trac-Lok
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Tom G
Gearhead Posts: 1069
From: Bethlehem, Pa USA
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 09-28-2006 09:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by buening:
Not sure if any of you guys are a member on the Vintage Mustang website, but someone there found a website that has the 2.5" Stainless Magnaflow exhaust kits for around $350 shipped. You can't even get a custom aluminized exhaust for that. The head pipes end near the collectors on Hooker longtubes. Below is a link of some pics of my stainless Magnaflow kit and below that link is the VMF thread (long) with the website and discount code. Make sure you read farther down the posts because someone discovered a better discount code. Just another option fellas, depending on your budget http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1438025/
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/showtopic.php?tid/1437873/tp/1/
That kit from Magnaflow is the best for the money that I have seen. I have one on the 67. Only slightly difficult part was matching up the head pipes to the headers as they give you an extra long set of them in the kit.One other hard part is cutting the very heavy walled stainless piping to fit. If you have access to a chop saw it is much much easier. My kit was 372 delivered!
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67 Mustang F/B 302 GT-40X FMS engine RPM Air Gap 650 Holley DP Crane 1.7 roller rockers, Performer Nitrous, ceramic headers WC T5, cable clutch MagnaFlow SS kit W/X Pipe 3.89 9". SSBC 4 piston frdisc Clearwater Aqua, Vintage 40 series 16X8 215 front 255/50 drag radials 308 RWHP@5800rpm 300 tq NA 385rwhp 380 w 75 shot 13.11 @111mph 88 GT (FiveOfastback's ride)
347 Twisted wedge custom HYD roller 565 lift 282 duration Street Heat, BBK headers X pipe
G Force 353 RWHP 393 RWTQ Red/Silver Newest Project!
69 Boss 302 Acapulco Blue
65k original miles Matching number motor and trans
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gunrocker
Gearhead Posts: 561
From: Colliers, WV,USA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 09-28-2006 11:48 PM
I've had GREAT results with Eastwoods exhaust manifold paint, comes in silver, cast iron, and black. Used cast iron on mine 15 years ago and still looks good! Just make sure you heat it up after you put it on to cure it.
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