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Author
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Topic: Electrical Grimlins
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-04-2006 01:34 AM
 
ok, so I've got a major issue here. my daily driver is a 1966 Mustang with the 200 cui inline 6. I just took it on a long trip with no issues but when I got home it wouldn't crank. When I turn the ignition switch the interior lights dim (door open so the lights are on) and I get nothing from the starter. Sometimes I get a little grind out of the starter, but not enough for anything.About a year ago I replaced the voltage regulator, and I've had it not start like this before, but after giggling the starter relay wires and starter wires, maybe the ignition wires a bit, and then it would work again. I was thinking it's gotta be a short somewhere...Any ideas about a way to go about fixgin this without tracing the whole harness?
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead Posts: 4777
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 10-04-2006 02:31 AM
Ground (negative) connections!I've solved more electrical problems than I care to admit simply by 'freshening up' the grounds. Check the condition of your battery cables... not only the positive side, but the negative side as well  ------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9" 12.58/110 on street tires, more to come;) All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html
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Pierre
Gearhead Posts: 661
From: Near Paris, France
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 10-04-2006 07:50 AM
Had a similar issue 48h before going on a long trip this summer...If what todd recommended doesn't work, you are going to need this : http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~djhamma/wiring/wiring1966.htm Using a good volt-Ohm-ampmeter you will have to collect voltage value on the starter relay and ignition switch side....a good level of electrical common sense should help you track down the issue
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rmousir
Gearhead Posts: 1124
From: Amelia, Ohio
Registered: May 2003
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posted 10-04-2006 05:37 PM
I was in a simular situation this summer. I figured that with the harness as old as it way and the po did who knows what I sucked it up and bout all new wiring from the fire wall forward. The three harness from NPD came to about $168 shipped. Went into place with out any problems and I haven't looked back since. A couple of bonuses:
-the head light flicker problem I had is gone and they are way brighter than before.
-the stero works now and does not kill my battery
-feels like there is more power
-looks way better It was a small price to pay and I am very happy knowing my wiring under the hood is solid. Now for the brakes.....  just my .02 Richard
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-08-2006 04:11 PM
Ok, well I traced the positive side and negative side of the starter relay under the hood, freshened up the starter ground, replaced the starter relay, and still no luck. The noise I was hearing wasn't coming from the starter, but was clicking in the starter relay.I don't know what else to try short of replaceing the whole harness. I'm starting to think that it's either the starter switch (under the dash) or some short in there somewhere, but I'm not sure where to start looking, Any suggestions? Again, as soon as I turn the key to the acc position, the interior lights dim and when I goto start, the lights turn off and I get nothing. It all goes back to normal as soon as I remove the key. This all seems to be an electrical short to me, but I'm not sure where exactly to start looking... Again, Suggestions?
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-08-2006 10:42 PM
Start by checking the battery for voltage. A fully charged battery should have about 12.6 volts(measured across the terminals).a minimum of about 12.2 volts is required.If your car still has a top post type battery clean both cables and battery posts and recharge the battery.Check the ground at the engine side of the negative battery cable for corrosion too.I've seen dirty or corroded cables and/or connections cause this type of problem.I doubt that you have a short in the wiring.Let us know how it works out. Good luck!
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-08-2006 10:55 PM
Yea, I have a deep cycle marine battery in there, constantly have like 16 volts, even after playing around with the lights going out all day. I just had the engine rebuilt about a year ago and I just checked the battery ground today, looks good. Somehow I think it's an issue further down the line. somewhere after the starter solinoid, not the starter/engine to chassis ground, thats ok. Not the starter it self, I still get the internal light dimming with the starter disconnected... Starting to think maybe it's under the dash somewhere. I havn't checked all the fuses, would a burt out fuse cause this? I would think a burt out fuse would just make it not work at all... I check those next. Any other suggestions? Are there other grounds I should check other than the battery and engine to chassis ground behind the starter?Thanks guys
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-08-2006 11:19 PM
Try connecting a remote starter switch to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid and the positive terminal on the battery or cable end at the solenoid.If the engine cranks over it's a bad ignition switch or wiring.
As far as I know there are no fuses in the circuit for the starting system.
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-08-2006 11:40 PM
Can I do that with just a spare wire? Instead of using a remote starter, I don't have one of those. Connect the "S" with the battery power directly with a piece of spare wire and see what happens? That sound about right?I tried getting a new starter switch from Kraigen yesterday, just to eliminate that from the equation and they gave me the wrong one. Dummies. I'll try that bypass thing and then if that solves it I'll have to mailorder the part from a reputable mustang only shop. No more quick fixes with crappy parts from the local idiots.
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-09-2006 12:20 AM
Be careful, but a standard screw driver placed across the solenoid will do the trick.
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-09-2006 12:25 AM
So a screwdriver from the positive battery terminal to the "S" prong on the starter solenoid?I'll give that a try tomorrow evening, thanks
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Jake11
Gearhead Posts: 246
From: Banning,Ca,USA
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 10-12-2006 05:44 PM
Try turning on your headlights. Are they
good and bright? If so start yanking and
moving your cables from the batt to the
engine and solenoid. Do the headlights
change any? If so you probably got a bad
cable. If not look at your starter. It is
probably shorted and sending power to ground
assuming your battery is good to go. If you
have a "voltmeter" to use we can get it
narrowed down a little better. Another thing you can do is take a old
screwdriver and jump the solenoid, small
"s" to "batt. term." It should make a loud
clunk noise. If it does, use your hand and
feel the cables and where they connect. Now
are any hot to feel. If so, thats a bad
connection thats causing a problem. If the solenoid don't make any noise, it's
maybee shot?
Good luck, KeithP P.S. electrical is hard to diagnose
sometimes. When you find the problem a
5yr old could probably fix it. It' finding
it that gets hard sometimes.
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-12-2006 09:05 PM
Ok, so it's been a few days, I've been busy with school stuff, so I couldn't work on that car. But I just tried the screwdriver acorss the live battery to "S" terminal on the starter solenoid and I got nothing. I could see the spark arcing so I know it had plenty of juice, butit's just not gettin where it needs to. There was no sound, nothing. It should be a good solenoid, It's brand new, just bought last weekend.One interesting thing I noticed is that when I turned the ignition key to the accessory position the interior lights dimmed, and while looking under the hood I could hear the battery hissing a little, like it was drawing power. So I'm pretty sure it's got a short in there somewhere. Any ideas? Thanks for you're reply Jake11, I tried what you suggested, The headlights won't turn on at all, which is weird because I thought they were coming on last weekend while I was troubleshooting. I'm starting to think it's a short somewhere in the interior/underdash harness. I know the starter is not the culprit because I disconnected the starter from the circuit and I still get the interior lights dimming when I switch on the ignition to accessory. Going through Mustang Withdrawl,
Greg
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-12-2006 11:13 PM
Even with the interior lights dimming, you should still be able to make the engine turn over.Make sure the negative cable is connected to a clean ground on the engine.
Invest in a remote starter switch and a DVOM(digital volt ohm meter)you should be able to find one that's inexpensive at auto zone or napa.Then retry jumping the solenoid.Again you should be able to make the starter crank because you've by-passed the switch and wiring to the solenoid.
Use the volt /ohm meter set to "amps" to check the amp draw on the battery.Remove the positive battery cable @ the battery and install the meter between the cable and the post on the battery.Turn the ignition switch to acc. and check the amperage reading on the meter.A normal reading with no other accessories on and only the door lights functioning would be around 5 amps.With the ignition key off there should be no amp draw on the battery.
A marine battery is not designed to be used with a charging system.It might be a good idea to try another regular automotive type battery.16 volts sounds kinda high to me.Hope this points you in the right direction!
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MustangGreg66
Journeyman Posts: 19
From: Richmond, CA
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-13-2006 09:59 PM
SUCCESS!I found the grimlin in my car, he as nestled behind my instrument pannel. A wire from the starter switch had a piece of electrial tape peal off, exposing a section of wire and shorting the system. after a quick patch, I was able to get it started again, no more worries. I made sure to take a peak at the rest of the wires back there while I had it all out and looks like I should be good, in that section anyway. Thanks everyone for your help in diagnosing my problem.
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Mark Ugrich
Gearhead Posts: 351
From: Waukesha, Wisconsin,U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-13-2006 10:11 PM
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