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  Why use a powerglide?

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Author Topic:   Why use a powerglide?
Rustang
Gearhead

Posts: 880
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-29-2005 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang        Reply w/Quote
I've always figured the bracket racing crowd uses the powerglide for consistency. But what is the advantage of using one in a heads up category as opposed to the C4? In PRO Mean Street, it seems the chebby guys are running powerglides. This is a small block, 365 inch limit class, where I think you'd want to keep the motor "on the pipe", hence 3 speeds instead of 2?

------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- 10.92@124
'67 Stang, 351W -11.18@118
'69 351C Torino-14.90@100
'78 Pickup 351W-15.56@88
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??

cracing
Gearhead

Posts: 640
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-29-2005 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cracing        Reply w/Quote
1 price
2 proven performance parts
3 parts avalibility
4 doesnt take a trans specialist to build one
5 1st gear ratio is lower numeric. allows less tire spin off line with high hp car, yet will 60 ft as good or better than a 2.46 1st gear.
6 price of parts & rebuild
7 did I mention price anywhere?

These are the reasons I run one, someone who has a sponsered trans or has enough of his/her own finances it, doesn't matter as much.

you mentioned keeping the engine "on the pipe", different setups will put the "pipe" just about anywhere you want it.

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-29-2005 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Price and durability is correct.
Stupid simple to fix and you can buy parts at Wal-Mart.
That said, I still wouldn't use one. Been there done that!
Powerslide is a boring ride.


A good C-4 that will hold up to the HP and abuse is about $3k without a converter.
The best still need maintanace every 60-80 passes.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

Rustang
Gearhead

Posts: 880
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-29-2005 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cracing:

you mentioned keeping the engine "on the pipe", different setups will put the "pipe" just about anywhere you want it.

Can you elaborate on that? I'm stuck on thinking a 3 speed will keep the motor in its sweet spot over a 2 speed.

I've accidentally left in 2nd gear with my C4 and it murders the ET

cracing
Gearhead

Posts: 640
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-29-2005 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cracing        Reply w/Quote
Different cam profiles, different strokes, types of fuel, camshaft timing can & do change the powerband or sweetspot as you call it, of the engine. If you are as Alex is, running in a class where there are strict enforced rules as to what cam, carb, intake, heads etc. you can run, this is not always possible.

When starting in 2nd with yours, which has a (I think) 1.40 something ratio, its still not like the 1.76 & up of the PG. But when you started in 2nd, it didnt spin, did it?

When using a 3 spd, the cam, carb, gear ratio, etc, must be chosen that will keep the engine in the power band when you shift, and because the engine doesnt drop the RPMs much due to close ratio of 1st 2nd & 3rd. This is called a "peaky" engine. An engine designed with a wider power range would perform better with a 2 spd as when you wind it to shift point, there will be a larger RPM drop when shifted. All things have to be factored in tho, converter stall, final gear ratio, etc. It has to be a combination to perform optimum. A straighforward swap from 3 to 2 spd with the same power band, rear gear, tire size, might not show a gain, possibly a loss, it all has to be mated. Or then again, if the combo was wrong for the 3 spd it might be dead on with a PG and pick way up.

What I'm saying is every part has to be thought out & combined with the proper parts for the intended use.

[This message has been edited by cracing (edited 04-29-2005).]

9sec65stang
Journeyman

Posts: 52
From: mehlville / st.louis mo
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-29-2005 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 9sec65stang        Reply w/Quote
only thing is that cant hold up to high horsepower motors nothing against c4 but my stock glide holds up to my 9 sec motor and if they where that strong why dont ford guys use them in heads up racing

9sec65stang
Journeyman

Posts: 52
From: mehlville / st.louis mo
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-29-2005 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 9sec65stang        Reply w/Quote
no offense just my thoughts

jsracingbbf
unregistered
posted 04-29-2005 05:16 PM              Reply w/Quote
Why use a Powerglide?

I dunno I've asked myself this question many times.

BTW the myth that they hold up better is malarky. they hold up after you buy $2000.00 worth of parts for them.

the myth they are cheap is also malarky, They are cheap if you have 400 HP and can run a basically stock set up.

The real thing is that everyone has parts for them. That's the deal right there.

You'll probably need a spare convertor and a spare glide if you make 800 or better. I don't care who builds it. You're likey to get 100 passes out of it.

Don't even think about running the stock planetaries over 800 hp especially with a heavy car.

Once you spend the money on two glides and two convertors you could have bought a good lenco.

BTW I run a glide.
that's the straight scoop.
Most folks that run a glide won't tell you all this because of two reasons.
One, they bleed chevy orange.
Two, they don't want to add up all they've spent on the glide or admit they could have done something different to begin with. ( ie mistake )

Me? well it isn't a mistake to run a glide, it's what everyone does right? It's just not ALWAYS the answer. Sure it works, but don't let folks mislead you. It isn't cheap,if it's bullet proof..... and it isn't bullet proof if it's cheap.
Same old story, speed costs how fast do you want to go?

best thing to do is look at the application and the powerband. What does your car need? what will it weigh? Don't necessarily have to run what everyone is running. if we all did that no one would experiment and ever get any faster. Of course I realize you have to stay within your class rules.

Good luck.

------------------
JS
"never submit yourself to scientific tests no matter how bad you need the money, for all you know they could have erased your memory and YOU WERE REALLY SOMEBODY BEFORE"
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag

rustang@home
Gearhead

Posts: 152
From: Clarion, PA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 04-29-2005 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rustang@home        Reply w/Quote
I guess for my class, given the engine rules (naturally aspirated, 365inches@3200lbs, 350@3100, and 310@3000), if you have a 3 speed and a 2 speed to pick from, and ALL you're interested in getting to the finish line first, and don't care about durability, how could a 2 speed powerglide hold an advantage? And let's assume it's a turbo 350, or 400 and not a C4!

See rules here: http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/rules.html

cracing
Gearhead

Posts: 640
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-29-2005 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cracing        Reply w/Quote
Less weight = ET
Less HP to operate trans itself = ET
Less moving parts


Jerry, mine had over 500 passes when it went, & it was my fault then. But then I dont have the HP or torque you are talking about either. Not saying the PG is better than any of the above mentioned trans., just in some applications they do offer an advantage.

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-29-2005 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 9sec65stang:
only thing is that cant hold up to high horsepower motors nothing against c4 but my stock glide holds up to my 9 sec motor and if they where that strong why dont ford guys use them in heads up racing


Most don't want to spend the money for the right stuff.

For less, you can buy a JW bell, trans, and converter.

Plenty of high powered fast guys with C-4's.
How much power do you think that Blair Patrick and Gene McBean are making with their SS 428 CJ Mustangs?
Well over 700 HP I assure you all.
My little 500ish HP may sound puny compared to many of the loaded up NMRA big inch deals, but I can still out 60 foot most of the Hot Street PG cars.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 1558
From: central Indiana
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-29-2005 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rustang@home:
I guess for my class, given the engine rules (naturally aspirated, 365inches@3200lbs, 350@3100, and 310@3000), if you have a 3 speed and a 2 speed to pick from, and ALL you're interested in getting to the finish line first, and don't care about durability, how could a 2 speed powerglide hold an advantage? And let's assume it's a turbo 350, or 400 and not a C4!

I would think a C4 would be quickest in this case. A 'glide might work for a bigger engine, but I still think a C4 is the way to go for a small engine. I wouldn't even consider a TH350 or TH400 for heads up over a C4.

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 408C 4V, 10.50 127 MPH

Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 22791
From: Reno Nv M&M #1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-29-2005 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:


My little 500ish HP may sound puny compared to many of the loaded up NMRA big inch deals,



Thats very impressive from a 289

------------------
oddly obsessed with big scoops on little Mustangs

65 coupe 351w C4 Big Boss 429 hood scoop,8" 3.40 TracLoc.

My Pics

jsracingbbf
unregistered
posted 04-29-2005 08:01 PM              Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cracing:
Less weight = ET
Less HP to operate trans itself = ET
Less moving parts


Jerry, mine had over 500 passes when it went, & it was my fault then. But then I dont have the HP or torque you are talking about either. Not saying the PG is better than any of the above mentioned trans., just in some applications they do offer an advantage.


Not saying you're wrong Bob, I agree with what you said, but you know as well as I do that a "good" set of planetaries is $1200.00 bucks and two things eat planetaries, HP and weight. Eventually one is gonna get the stock set.
Maybe the glide is still the cheapest thing out there, but cheapest in my book doesn't mean cheap. You can build an old stock glide for $300.00 bucks or you can buy all the trick stuff and a JW bell and wind up with $5000.00 in it. Maybe that's small change I dunno.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd have opted for a RACE trans to begin with, a Glide that is tricked out has almost NO STOCK bowtie parts in it. aftermarket case, tailshft, bellhousing, clutchs, front pump, drum, etc.. you get my point. hell I dunno why they even call it a powerglide anymore? except that it is a copy of a chevy 2 speed powerglide.

Race trans aren't made by OEM
Lenco, liberty, bruno etc... they make racing trans.

------------------
JS
"never submit yourself to scientific tests no matter how bad you need the money, for all you know they could have erased your memory and YOU WERE REALLY SOMEBODY BEFORE"
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag

cracing
Gearhead

Posts: 640
From: Saltillo Miss. USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 04-29-2005 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cracing        Reply w/Quote

Jerry, you are the only one on here that knows me & my low budget situation. My PG has a stock pump, rebuilt by me, stock band, stock drum, stock planetaries, cheap smooth frictions & steels, valve body is a modified stock unit, only aftermarket parts are the alum 1 qt. pan, universal shift lever & dual ring servo, & finally, a hardened input shaft.

It did chew up the planetaries & I replaced them with a used set out of a junk trans and changed the case. Shortly after that I installed the new servo with teflon rings & that is when it burned the band & damaged the clutch drum, as I said above, that was my fault as I broke the rings on installation. After putting a used band & drum in along with the JW bell, it then cracked the case at the casting flash at the rear clutch piston. Now I will go back with the case I had been running. I have cut off the OEM bellhousing & after cleaning, will install all the parts from cracked case.

Any OEM case can & does have stress risers in them that can go at any time, so will aftermarket parts. However those that you mentioned Lenco, Bruno, etc.are built for serious abuse. They do cost about three & a half times and more than what I have in mine. Its a matter of running what I can or not running at all. What I dont know, (a lot) I have to teach myself to make or repair my junk myself as do a lot of racers without sponsers or a good check or good health.

Damn, I got off topic didnt I? Sorry

jsracingbbf
unregistered
posted 04-30-2005 01:03 PM              Reply w/Quote
Bob, racing will wear out a good pocket book. I swear it will...... even with sponsors. (sigh) but then again underwater basket weaving is cheaper but NOT near as much fun!

My Pop used to tell me it doesn't cost anymore to go first class, you just can't go as often. maybe he was on to sumthin i dunno

------------------
JS
"never submit yourself to scientific tests no matter how bad you need the money, for all you know they could have erased your memory and YOU WERE REALLY SOMEBODY BEFORE"
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag

[This message has been edited by jsracingbbf (edited 04-30-2005).]

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 04-30-2005 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Your pop was right Jerry.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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