Brought to you in part by:

M&M Restoration & Tool Supply Store

Great deals on auto restoration supplies!

.


NOTICE! The old Mustangsandmore.com is a read-only archive.
Currently the Search function is inoperative, but we are working on the problem.

Please join us at our NEW Mustangsandmore.com forums located at this location.
Please notice this is a brand new message board, and you must re-register to gain access.

  Mustangsandmore Forum Archive
  '69 to '73 -- The Musclecar Mustang
  mach 1 q code

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   mach 1 q code
kerrydee
Journeyman

Posts: 13
From: Arlington,VA.,USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-10-2006 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kerrydee        Reply w/Quote
Some confusion here. None of my books or other online sources list Q as a code on a 1971 Mach 1 engine.I pulled a Marti report on an M code Mach and it came back with "RAM AIR OPTION".this would lead one to believe that this car has ram air but actually it only refers to the ram air hood as opposed to the flat hood.I called Marti and he said that in fact if a 1971 Mach 1 had REAL "DUAL RAM AIR INDUCTION" it MUST be a Q code of which only 66 were ever produced. It would not show up under 'options' because the Q code would alone verify that.

So many 71 Mach's , especially on Ebay are listed incorrectly as ram air when in fact they are not.I have never seen a Q code 1971 Mach. Anyone??

70SportsRoof
Gearhead

Posts: 1064
From: Orange County, CA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-10-2006 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70SportsRoof        Reply w/Quote
I've heard of the Q code in the '71 on various online sites, it is a 351 making something like 280 HP. From what i gathered the M code 351 was replaced late during the '71 model year with the Q code. The Q (called Cobra Jet) was a little lower compression and used a different carb.

------------------
Gary M
'70 Mustang 63b SportsRoof
'95 Mustang GT coupe
and 5 more classic Fords

mach1mike
Gearhead

Posts: 135
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 03-11-2006 06:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach1mike        Reply w/Quote
The book I have lists the 351 M code as having 285bhp @ 5400 with a CR of 10.7:1
The Q code shows 266bhp @5400 with a CR of 9.0:1.
Depending which source you trust a rule- 71 M code = non ram air, 71 Q code = ram air.

heres a 71 351 M code that belongs to a mate of mine, it has the Ram air hood but its blanked off & has no ducting inside.

cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-11-2006 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71        Reply w/Quote
Early Ford literature for 71 lists the 'M' code engine as the 351-4V (non ram-air). The exact same engine but with ram-air installed is listed as a 'Q' code engine.

Interestingly, at least in 1971, the ram-air set-up was a free-standing option on only ONE engine; the 351-2V. In all other circumstances, it came only as a part of a complete engine 'code/package', even though there was literally nothing different about them other than the ram-air stuff.

The 351-4V was either 'M'(with) or 'Q'(without).

The 429 was either 'J'(with) or 'C' without.

Funny thing about the 429; Even though the engine was avaialable as either a 'Cobra Jet', or a 'Super Cobra Jet', the VIN#-code had nothing to do with that fact. The SCJ had very significant and very unique differences internally and externally from the 'regular' CJ, yet there is no engine code that signifies that. Short of original paperwork, the prescence of the 'Drag-Pack'(axle, oil cooler, rev-limiter, etc...)is the only real way to determine the prescence of an SCJ.
Yet for some goofy reason, Ford chose to give a completely different engine code for something as apparently mundane as the one single change in the configuration of an air-cleaner! My guess is that it had everything to do with emissions-certification laws.

Many, many sources get the 429 codes confused, and list the 'C' vs. 'J' as the CJ vs. SCJ, but that is not correct.

As far as the documentation I have, the 'Q' code engine did not officially become known as a 'Cobra Jet' until the 72 model year. However,it may have been a late-71 model year running change, considering that the other 'Cobra Jet' engines (429s) had been pulled from production mid-way through the 71 model-year.
My opinion is that the 72 351 CJ motor was only minutely different on paper from the 'ordinary' 351-4V, but was in fact a much more 'performance-feeling' motor in real world driving.
And of course, in 72, there was also the late-year and rare 'R' code 'High Output' 351-4V engine, which was basically a detuned and smogged-out version of 1971s 'BOSS 351' engine. With a 3.91 axle and 4-speed as mandatory, it was quite a strong performer, leaving almost nothing to a 'real' BOSS 351. All other engines in 72-73 were limited to a 3.50 rear gear at most, which severely hampered the 'drag-racer' out there.

dlewis
Journeyman

Posts: 31
From: slidell, LA, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-11-2006 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dlewis        Reply w/Quote
my understanding is that "M" code was the 351c 4v motor in '71. My friend is restoring one. I have a '73 Mach1 "Q" code which is the cobra jet motor basically a detuned "M" code motor revised to meet epa.

Many people put ram air (functional) on cars as an add on back in the day kinda like the shaker for the new mustangs now. A ram air hood (non-functional) was in my understanding available on any v-8 mustang from 71-73. Functional ram air was only on 2v clevelands in 73 and i believe all 351 and larger in 72-73 but i am not possitive.

Hope that helps.

Also a true ram air car has the correct twist hood locks. Only functional ram air cars and i believe the Boss 351 come factory with those.


Darren

------------------
'73 Mustang Mach1 Q code , 351 cleveland 4v open chamber heads, low compression dished pistons, 3.25 trac loc, c-6, PS,PB,a/c.

"DRIVE IT LIKE YA STOLE IT"

Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 936
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-11-2006 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson        Reply w/Quote
M code=Closed chamber
Q code=Open chamber

------------------

  • VIN 1F05M139343
  • 71 Mach 1 Ram-Air
  • 351C 4V 285 HP
  • E-F-G/SA
  • Stockers are way cool!

Bob429
Gearhead

Posts: 545
From: Watervliet,MI,USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2006 01:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob429        Reply w/Quote
Quoted original message see below


[This message has been edited by Bob429 (edited 03-11-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Bob429 (edited 03-11-2006).]

Bob429
Gearhead

Posts: 545
From: Watervliet,MI,USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2006 01:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob429        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bob429:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cobravenom71:
The SCJ had very significant and very unique differences internally and externally from the 'regular' CJ, yet there is no engine code that signifies that. Short of original paperwork, the prescence of the 'Drag-Pack'(axle, oil cooler, rev-limiter, etc...)is the only real way to determine the prescence of an SCJ.


Actually the 429 SCJ's with automatics did not come with either an oil cooler or a rev limiter. The only consistant determining factor for a 429 SCJ is either 3:91 or 4:11 gears


cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-11-2006 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71        Reply w/Quote
Yeah, you're right: I was just being generic.
The twist locks did come on the 73-only 'two-tone' hood option.

The non-functional ram-air hood was a 'free' option on 302-equipped Mach 1s, and standard equipment on all other Mach 1s. It was not optionally avaialable on any other model unless the functioanl ram-air package was ordered also.
So, in effect, the only 'correct' single (body) color, non-functional ram-air hoods came on Mach 1s. If the hood was on any other model, it could only have been the two-tone functional model, with the singular exception of 73. Of course, the functional set-up was clearly avaialable on certain Mach 1s.
Confused yet?

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-11-2006 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bob429:


Very simple way to tell them apart.

429 SCJ had a dual feed Holley carb.
CJ had a GM built Rottenchester Quadrabog.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

Bob429
Gearhead

Posts: 545
From: Watervliet,MI,USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-11-2006 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob429        Reply w/Quote
yep that too

------------------
Bob
Member#39
71 J code
429 SCJ-R Sportsroof
C6 4:11 14.226@96.82 on street tires (I'll do better next year)
http://www.my429scj.50megs.com
http://www.mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/Bob429.html
2004 Pure stock muscle car Drags pics now on my page.

Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 03-11-2006 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68        Reply w/Quote
The only time I had the privilege of verifying a 429 SCJ was by the partial VIN stamped on the driver's side head. (The car was a genuine Drag Pack, verified by Marti.)
Maybe all SCJs had stampings on them?

cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-11-2006 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
The only time I had the privilege of verifying a 429 SCJ was by the partial VIN stamped on the driver's side head. (The car was a genuine Drag Pack, verified by Marti.)
Maybe all SCJs had stampings on them?

The vin # will NOT tell you if you have a CJ or a SCJ...they both used the same engine codes.
So the Vin # stamped on the head is worthless as a SCJ vs. CJ verification tool, other than to tell you the head is an original part.

OK, to be clear, as near as I can remember, the SCJ had these differences over the standard CJ:
Holly 750 cfm carb instead of Rochester 700 cfm carb.
Approprite intake manifold
Solid lifters
Cap-screw connecting rods
Flywheel vibration damper
slightly more agressive cam
(282/296 duration vs. 300/300 duration)
Nodular crank
Improved pistons
Rev-limiter and oil cooler on 4-speed cars
Unique air cleaner
3.91 'Traction-Lok' or 4.11 'Detroit Locker' differential


Back to the original post about 351 ram-air availability:
The 351-4V (non ram air- 'M' code) came with a 3.25 axle ( 4-speed) or a 3.00 (auto)standard, and a 3.50 'Trak-Lok' was an option, except for A/C cars, which had a 3.25 mandatory for 4-speeds and 3.00 maqndatory for autos.
The 'Q' code 351-4V 'ram air' came with the same deal for 4-speeds, but there was no 3.00 available for autos, only 3.25 and 3.50. (3.25 mandatory with A/C).
All available either 'peg-leg' or limited slip.
Only the BOSS 351 could have a 3.91, and the 429 SCJ could have the 3.91 or a 4.11.

Whew!...

Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 03-11-2006 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68        Reply w/Quote
quote:
The vin # will NOT tell you if you have a CJ or a SCJ...they both used the same engine codes.
So the Vin # stamped on the head is worthless as a SCJ vs. CJ verification tool, other than to tell you the head is an original part.


My logic was simply this. Drag Pack 429s all came with the SCJ, didn't they? If that's true, and the partial VIN on the head matches the VIN of the car, bingo, you have the original SCJ. Or one head, anyway.

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-12-2006 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Holley was a 780 CFM
Rottenchester was 750 CFM

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

Bob429
Gearhead

Posts: 545
From: Watervliet,MI,USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-12-2006 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob429        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fastback68:
The only time I had the privilege of verifying a 429 SCJ was by the partial VIN stamped on the driver's side head. (The car was a genuine Drag Pack, verified by Marti.)
Maybe all SCJs had stampings on them?

They were all stamped on the drivers side of the block just below the head. I've not seen one stamped in the head. That would include J codes C codes M codes and Q codes.


------------------
Bob
Member#39
71 J code
429 SCJ-R Sportsroof
C6 4:11 14.226@96.82 on street tires (I'll do better next year)
http://www.my429scj.50megs.com
http://www.mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/Bob429.html
2004 Pure stock muscle car Drags pics now on my page.

[This message has been edited by Bob429 (edited 03-12-2006).]

Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 03-12-2006 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68        Reply w/Quote
I thought I turned the car down 'cos the heads had a partial VIN matching the Marti-verified Drag Pack, but the block was a Thunderjet. The more I think about it, the more I'm sure that's what happened, and I had a laptop full of references and spent two days going over the car.
Are you sure stampings of SCJs were on the block only?

[This message has been edited by Fastback68 (edited 03-12-2006).]

Bob429
Gearhead

Posts: 545
From: Watervliet,MI,USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-12-2006 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob429        Reply w/Quote
As I recall, There is no stamping on my heads Just on the block. The only thing on my heads are the casting numbers. The other 429 guys always mention the stamping on the block. I have not heard mention of the numbers being stamped into the heads although I guess it's possible. I'm getting ready to pull the engine to detail the engine bay. I'll look at the heads again just to see.

------------------
Bob
Member#39
71 J code
429 SCJ-R Sportsroof
C6 4:11 14.226@96.82 on street tires (I'll do better next year)
http://www.my429scj.50megs.com
http://www.mustangsandmore.50megs.com/MembersPics/Bob429.html
2004 Pure stock muscle car Drags pics now on my page.

[This message has been edited by Bob429 (edited 03-12-2006).]

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-12-2006 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
I have been doing this FoMoCo stuff for a few weeks now and I don't think I have ever seen a head with the VIN# stamped on it.
EVER!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-12-2006 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Holley was a 780 CFM
Rottenchester was 750 CFM


Ford's literature from '71 indicates that the Rochester was a 700 CFM, and that the Holly was indeed a 780 CFM.
However, I agree that the Q/J was in fact a 750, as that was what originally came on my car.

Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 4511
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 03-12-2006 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68        Reply w/Quote
Sorry guys, I had a brain fart! In the clear light of morning it comes back to me. The heads were correct, but the block had a stamping that did NOT match the VIN.

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3835
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-14-2006 05:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT        Reply w/Quote
Those Marti Reports donít report something that would be included in a package as an option. The Q-code included Ram-Air so it would not be listed. My 68 FB has a 390 4-speed combination and a Tach was included so it did not show up as an option on my report. You think the guy would publish something that listed all of the included equipment with options or packages.

kerrydee
Journeyman

Posts: 13
From: Arlington,VA.,USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-21-2006 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kerrydee        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the input but I am still not sure.I got my Marti book today and for 71 mach 1 in the options section they list only 66 Q codes produced with the U trans. code. mine is a 71,M code,T5export,U trans, 3514V 285hp.
It has two tone hood,ducts etc,but a Holly carb. The guy Im trying to buy it from swears it is factory ram air that someone switched breathers on so he could use the Holly.
To make matters more confusing, Marti,By the Numbers book lists ''ram air hood'' as an option as does my official report, but gives no other option having to do with "ram air".
Also I noticed on ebay that a guy is selling a vintage article about an M code, factory ram air car. I also talked to a lady that is an original owner of a 71 mach M code with factory ram air.
I guess my question is, do you guys believe that there is an M code w/ram air?
I think I'm thinking too much!!

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-21-2006 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cobravenom71:
Ford's literature from '71 indicates that the Rochester was a 700 CFM, and that the Holly was indeed a 780 CFM.
However, I agree that the Q/J was in fact a 750, as that was what originally came on my car.


Ford lied.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 1349
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-24-2006 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71        Reply w/Quote
Those bastards!

Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 3237
From: Stanton, Michigan, zip 48888
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 03-25-2006 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
[QUOTE]

...had a GM built Rottenchester Quadrabog.


...& I'M STILL LAUGHIN' MY AZZ OFF..! BBAWHAHAHAHWAHAWAAA-WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA...!

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2006, Steve LaRiviere. All Rights Reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[Posting Pictures]

[About M&M][Members' Pics]

[M&M Conventions] [M&M Mug Shots] [Tech Articles]

[M&M Bookstore] [M&M Restoration & Tool Supply Store]