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Author
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Topic: 64 cyclone special car?
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-01-2006 06:33 PM
 
I have a 64 cyclone race car that we just bought for my husband's birthday. The vin # is 4h27k554601 The vin # doesn't indicate anything special, but there is a tag in the glove box that makes me wonder about this car. It is factory rivited in and says something about special lightweight fiberglass parts being on the car from the factory. I am trying to find out if this car is "special" in more ways than just my husband liking it. The vin code doesn't indicate anything special and the door tag doesn't really either. However, the door tag has a paint color code P which doesn't exist on anything decoder I can find. It reads: 63e p 9 04b 51 4 5. Does anyone have any ideas?
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-01-2006 08:09 PM
It may indeed! In those years Ford had several cars specially built for drag racing with fiberglass and aluminum parts. They were called 'Lightweights'You may have the Comet version of the Thunderbolt. Hang tight, someone around here that knows a lot more than me about these cars will have more info. I tried to Google some info on Lightweights for you, but here's all I found: http://www.competitionplus.com/2005_01_13/422motorsports.html http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000570.html ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-01-2006 10:47 PM
thanks! I hope someone can shed some light. If this car is in fact one of the factory built race cars, what is it worth?
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-02-2006 04:41 AM
Previous Discussion(s) On 1964 COMET HP;http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000570.html There's another one floating here somewheres...see if I can find it...
__________________________________ I am looking for the PCV system from an early 1962/63 221/260 SBF that had the oil filler tube in the front cover and the PCV valve mounted on the rear of the intake. I would like it complete if possible, in pieces otherwise; 1) Front Cover And Tube
2) 4V Intake Manifold
3) Complete PCV Hookup On Rear Of Intake
4) Smooth Closed Rocker Covers
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 03:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 64cometman:
thanks! I hope someone can shed some light. If this car is in fact one of the factory built race cars, what is it worth?
Pretty decent money. Some of the Thunderbolts are six figure cars. I had a little more time to do some searching for you. Here's some info I found: "In 1964, Ford produced about 50 ultra-high performance lightweight Comet Cyclones, equipped with their racing two carburetor 427 engine, similar to their cousin, the Ford Thunderbolt. In order not to compete with each other, the Thunderbolts ran in Super Stock on 7 in tires, but the Cyclones were modified to run in A/FX on 10 in tires, where they were as dominant as the Thunderbolts were in Super Stock." {from this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Comet } This site has a few guys that own '64 A/FX and B/FX Comets: http://www.jumpthegun.com/cyclone/ccregistry.htm Dyno Don's history with a '64 Comet A/FX: http://www.nhra.com/50th/top50/D_Nicholson18.html A site {in french} of a '64 A/FX: http://www.trombinoscar.com/comet/co6409.html As you can see, there's a very good chance that you may have a very special car. It's definitely worth more investigation. Do you have any photos that may help with identification? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 03:34 PM
It has a 289 in it that is hyped up. If it had a 427 in it, I do not know about it. I also saw the sites that you sent. I do have more pictures. How do I post them?
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 03:42 PM
Send them to me at webmaster@mustangsandmore.com
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 03:42 PM
I did notice that the bfx cars were 289s
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 04:03 PM
I am publishing them to my website so it will be easier for you to see. www.tigggr.com It is under John's 64 cyclone race car.
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 04:12 PM
ok, they are published. The tach says cyclone on it. The picture didn't show it very well. If there is anything else that will help identify, let me know. There have been quite a few modifications made as you can see. There is a roll cage and a different shifter along with numerous others. It even has an australian high rise intake on it.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 04:40 PM
Nice car. For some reason I thought you were talking about a barn find.Are the fenders still fiberglass? Have you contacted any of the guys that own similar cars? Unless those shock towers have been replaced there's no way a big block would have fit in there. Have you checked the engine for a VIN to see if it matches? ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 04:55 PM
no barn find, I wish, wouldn't have cost so much! I believe the 289 is the original engine, I don't think it had the 427 in it. As I stated before, the b/fx cars I believe had the 289 engines with automatic in them. the a/fx cars are the ones that had manual transmission and 427 engines. I may be wrong. I do not know where to look at for the vin # on the engine. I don't know anyone with a similar car.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 05:16 PM
I'm not sure if it's different with the earlier cars, but the VIN on my engines are stamped on the deck behind the driver's cylinder head, near where the bellhousing bolts. Given the car's age it's probably not the original, but you never know. The '64 engine and bellhousing should only have five bolts, in '65 they went to 6 bolts.A 427 would have needed the shock towers radically cut back to fit in there, and they appear all there in the photos. I'm not sure, but I think A or B/FX related to if the wheelbase was altered. Again, I have limited knowledge in these cars. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 05:25 PM
Looks like you are right:"FX classes differed from Stock categories in that they were determined by cubic-inch-to-weight ratios rather than advertised horsepower. The original weight breaks, introduced at the 1962 Winternationals, were 0-8.99 pounds per cubic inch for A/FX, 9.00-12.99 for B/FX, and 13.0 and higher for C/FX." From http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4078/is_200304/ai_n9173821 ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 06:15 PM
All the FoMoCo factory "FX" cars were sticks.
A couple of the B and C/FX full size cars were tried with automatics, but not sucessfully.
Does the car have fiberglass body parts or not?
Is it a factory stick car?------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-02-2006 06:18 PM
__________________________________ I am looking for the PCV system from an early 1962/63 221/260 SBF that had the oil filler tube in the front cover and the PCV valve mounted on the rear of the intake. I would like it complete if possible, in pieces otherwise; 1) Front Cover And Tube
2) 4V Intake Manifold
3) Complete PCV Hookup On Rear Of Intake
4) Smooth Closed Rocker Covers[/B][/QUOTE] How about a 2V 260 intake and valve covers?
E-mail me Gary. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,'04 &'05
First NHRA & IHRA 289 automatic Superstock Mustang in the TENS 06-99
First SS/MA in the TENS 04-03
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28 The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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RonnieT
Gearhead Posts: 912
From: Port Allen, La. 70767
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 08-02-2006 08:21 PM
I see in the photos that the rear bumper for sure is fiberglass and the front also looks to be fiberglass from the color. Also I noticed a TASCA FORD emblem on the decklid. Have you checked to see what other parts are fiberglass on the car?------------------
Ronnie
69 mach1 351W-4V engineless at the time!
70 Torino GT 351C-4v with a "shaker"
Mustangs and More Member #23
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 08:58 PM
I took a magnet to the car and the front fenders don't seem to be fiberglass. Not sure what else to check. What does the Tasca Ford emblem mean ?
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 09:37 PM
my husband said that he was told the car originally had the fiberglass front fenders, but they were replaced as they were busted up. After seeing pictures, what do you all think this car is worth? It runs great! Has a demon carburetor on it and a 9" (I think) spool in the rear end. As I mentioned before it has an Australian high rise intake that is aluminum. It has electric water pump and an aluminum radiator with an electric fan, etc. etc. etc.
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-02-2006 09:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
All the FoMoCo factory "FX" cars were sticks.
A couple of the B and C/FX full size cars were tried with automatics, but not sucessfully.
Does the car have fiberglass body parts or not?
Is it a factory stick car?
It does have the 4 speed hump in it, however, it is now automatic with a tranny brake in it and a shift light.
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John64
Journeyman Posts: 22
From: Surrey, BC Canada
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-03-2006 02:37 PM
according to the data tag, it's a 64 Cyclone that was a 4 spd. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it was a factory B/FX car , it should have a special DSO number. This car has a DSO 51 for Denver. Also didn't the A/FX & B/FX Cyclones have the 2 square hood cut outs on the front of the hood instead of the teardrop?
http://www.jumpthegun.com/cyclone/pictures/ja644.jpg
And, the tag attached in the glove compartment door is the same as the T-bolt disclaimer and are available in reproduction, same for the factory style rivets...------------------
John P
64 Fairlane
68 Mustang GT/CS [This message has been edited by John64 (edited 08-03-2006).] [This message has been edited by John64 (edited 08-03-2006).]
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-04-2006 12:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by John64:
Also didn't the A/FX & B/FX Cyclones have the 2 square hood cut outs on the front of the hood instead of the teardrop?
Never Say Never... 
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Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968 Also Early FORD Special Service Tools -Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-04-2006 06:25 AM
Hmm...If the 64 A/FX did not have a tear drop hood, did MERC DIVISION not use the 427HR as did FORD? You can't slam the hood on a HR, even in a GALAXY. I can't see them running the LR and the MR/SOHC was not available until 1965. It is going to be very difficult to authenticate this car as it may be real or a retrofit. As in the 64 COMET 289HP discussion, one would have to have access to period TSB's and dealer notification letters. Most anything that made them unique then is reproduced now. -FALCON/COMET CONVERSION PARTS- quote:
Tasca Ford
Tasca Ford still operates today at its original location on 777 Taunton Avenue in East Providence, Rhode Island. The premier Ford performance dealer during the muscle car era, Tasca Ford entered the performance market in 1961 when Bob Tasca formed a special high-performance division. Early projects included a 427 Thunderbird in 1965 and a "505" Mustang, which featured 505 bhp and supposedly inspired the Boss 302 Mustang. Tasca's personal driver in 1969 was an 11-second Mustang. But most impressive were Tasca's drag racing cars, first a 1962 406 Galaxie, and then a 406 equipped Fairlane (supposedly the inspiration of the factory 1964 Thunderbolt).
In 1966, Tasca Ford debuted its Holman-Moody built "Mystery 9" Mustang, which quickly changed names as its et's dropped. By 1969, Tasca was running a fuel funny car, but that strayed away from the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mantra. By 1963, upwards of 60 high performance cars (40% of total sales) were being sold each month. Tasca also sold the first Shelby AC Cobras in the Northeast. But Tasca will be remembered as creating the inspiration of the Cobra Jet 428. It all started when Tasca reworked the standard 428 Police Interceptor with reworked heads and a 735-cfm four-barrel Holley carb and dropped it into their 1967 Mustang GT coupe. They called it "KR" for "King of the Road" and word soon reached Ford management. They decided to offer the new 428 from the factory but passed on the Tasca name (The "KR" label was actually used on the CJ-powered GT 500 Shelby Mustang) and labeled it the "Cobra Jet" which saved Ford's performance image on the street. But the performance era would soon end, and Tasca actually switched over to Lincoln-Mercury in 1971. But it switched back in 1994 and the home of Ford performance lives on.
Excerpt From- -MUSCLE CAR CLUB-LIST of PERFORMANCE DEALERS-
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Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968 Also Early FORD Special Service Tools -Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum- [This message has been edited by KULTULZ (edited 08-04-2006).]
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John64
Journeyman Posts: 22
From: Surrey, BC Canada
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-04-2006 02:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
It is going to be very difficult to authenticate this car as it may be real or a retrofit.
If it's a factory drag car it will have a special DSO number, which this car does not have. Whether it's factory or not the car is very nice, I would change it back to 4spd though 
I guess for the hoods you could have a ram air, teardrop or both as seen in the photo you posted? [This message has been edited by John64 (edited 08-04-2006).]
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-04-2006 03:06 PM
the a/fx cars had the 427 but some of the b/fx cars had 289 in them
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-05-2006 03:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by John64:I guess for the hoods you could have a ram air, teardrop or both as seen in the photo you posted?
This is what confuses me and I have never thought of it before. The 427 HR (competition engine of that period-427 LR released for street) required the tear drop to clear the air box. Did the 64 A/FX have both features on it's hood and I have never noticed? Or have I been focusing on B/FX pictures without paying close attention? Were fresh air tubes connected to those scoops similiar to the T-BOLT with its' tubes at the grille or inner headlamp positions? The 1965 A/FX has a specialty ram air hood (variation) to feed the 427 8V SOHC.  Fascinating subject. MERCURY tried to outdo FORD at every turn it seems.
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Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968 Also Early FORD Special Service Tools -Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-05-2006 03:53 AM
quote:
Pleading By KULTULZ:I am looking for the PCV system from an early 1962/63 221/260 SBF that had the oil filler tube in the front cover and the PCV valve mounted on the rear of the intake. I would like it complete if possible, in pieces otherwise; 1) Front Cover And Tube
2) 4V Intake Manifold
3) Complete PCV Hookup On Rear Of Intake
4) Smooth Closed Rocker Covers
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:How about a 2V 260 intake and valve covers? E-mail me Gary.
What do I have to do...present it on a silver platter with a royal seal? ...sheesh... ...Indian Pizza Giver...  ------------------
Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968 Also Early FORD Special Service Tools -Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-05-2006 03:56 AM
There was a very limited number of THUNDERBOLT automatics (I am thinking two) that used the LINC LX trans (TWIN-TURBO). They (trans) didn't hold up. I wonder had they had the later FMX technology to combine the two that they would have? ------------------
Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968 Also Early FORD Special Service Tools -Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-
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John64
Journeyman Posts: 22
From: Surrey, BC Canada
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-06-2006 05:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KULTULZ:
There was a very limited number of THUNDERBOLT automatics (I am thinking two) that used the LINC LX trans (TWIN-TURBO). They (trans) didn't hold up.
according to Craig Sutton's Thunderbolt webpage, there were 59 Automatic T-bolts made.
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John P
64 Fairlane
68 Mustang GT/CS
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KULTULZ
Gearhead Posts: 959
From: Rockville, MD
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 08-08-2006 08:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by John64:...according to Craig Sutton's Thunderbolt webpage, there were 59 Automatic T-bolts made.
I did not know that! Thanx for straightening me out. My memory was the automatics would not hold up. Another feather in the cap for the CRUISE-O-MATIC!
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Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968 Also Early FORD Special Service Tools -Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln- Forum-
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 08-19-2006 05:15 AM
How'd i miss this earlier. Holy schmokes there's a whole garage full of red Cyclones there! Being somewhat partial to 64 Comets as well i thought i should voice my opinion. The fiberglass parts appear to be Crites, not originals which are really rough. The glovebox disclaimer plate has been repro'd for years, it appears to be one. The Tasca emblems are even repro'd. (Besides Tasca was a Ford, not Mercury dealer) It does have a rare radio block off plate, any without radio did, though having heater controls along with a 51 DSO and several other things say it isn't a BFX car. It is a very cool car however. [This message has been edited by TomP (edited 08-19-2006).] [This message has been edited by TomP (edited 08-19-2006).]
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-19-2006 08:52 AM
Thanks. I am beginning to think it really is a repro, but hey, what the heck! As for the "whole garage" full of red cyclones. We have two. ;O) The other red car is a 64 Falcon Sprint Hard Top. It is our major show car. It goes to nationals and such. It has done pretty well for my hubby. I can't remember if I posted it or not, but you can see pictures of a lot of car shows and our cars at www.tigggr.com I am unsure if I can post comets I have available for sale or not, so If anyone is interested in that, let me know and I will post the 3 I have for sale.
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 08-25-2006 04:58 PM
By the way the only factory 64 B/FX car was the one Doug Nash raced. Any others would be independants and would not have a distinct DSO or any good way to document their build.
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator Posts: 48752
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99
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posted 08-25-2006 07:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 64cometman:
I am unsure if I can post comets I have available for sale or not
You can in the Classifieds forum. ------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '70 Mustang Convertible - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150 XL
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64cometman
Journeyman Posts: 15
From: derby, ks usa
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-29-2006 05:31 PM
just found out that the original shock towers were cut out and replaced. That means at one time it COULD have housed a 427 and it does have the 4 speed hump in it. I am sure I do not have an original, but wouldn't that be the find of the century?
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